What age would you consider chess set before it is classified an antique?
Good subject.
Antique Dealers
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crusaderwabbet wrote:
What age would you consider a antique chess set?
Good subject.
I would think at least 10 years of age would be the minimum, but I would say any company that identifies itself as an "antique dealer" of any sort qualifies for this thread.
rcmacmillan wrote:
This is another one of those topics that could be considered subjective. A car, for example, is a vintage car in most states at 25, and an antique at 50. For chess sets, I’ve always considered anything older than ten years as vintage, and anything over 75 as antique. Your mileage may vary.
Good comment/break-down, however, this thread is really just about identifying and recommending dealers who identify themselves as "antique" dealers; my intent is not to define the term "antique". Frank sells everything from several years old to hundreds of years old, and he just calls himself an "antique dealer"; I would imagine most chess companies will either identify themselves as retailers of new products or dealers of "antiques" (which would probably include everything from several years to hundreds of years old); I doubt any company would label themselves something in-between new and antique (like vintage).
My guess is that their are not many dealers that deal in just antique chess sets. Just antiques narrows it down.
crusaderwabbet wrote:
My guess is that their are not many dealers that deal in just antique chess sets. Just antiques narrows it down.
Any dealer who offers non-new chess equipment of any kind, in an amount of some significance, in addition to other products (or not), qualifies for this thread; a company that you could recommend to someone who is shopping for an antique set, board, clock, box, etc.
rcmacmillan wrote:
No dealer worth his or her salt would call a ten year old set an antique. An antique, by its very definition, is an object that has value because of its considerable age and scarcity. That said, you have named two of the best there are. Frank Camaratta has a lovely selection, and sells new, used, reproduction and antique sets on his site. Tim Millard of Antiquechessshop.com is also a respected and reputable dealer. A third you may not be aware of is Luke Honey at lukehoney.co.uk He is a games specialist and a former appraiser for Bonham's. Marco Dorland of Dorland-chess.com is another one. He's quite old now, and has been selling off his collection piecemeal for a few years now. I've bought from all of them, and never had a problem.
Great information
This set really has my eye: https://www.antiquechessshop.com/products/ref1838-jaques-staunton-club-chessmen-box/. Unfortunately, I think it's just a bit too big for my tastes (4.4" king) and Tim is probably going to ask for at least 3500 GBP, which is just way out of my ballpark. If this set was closer to $1000 CAD and in the 3.5/4" height range I'd probably take a shot at it.
rcmacmillan wrote:
You won't find many antique dealers that specialize in chess sets. It's just too limited a field, and one that has a fairly limited clientele. On the Other hand, there are a number of Ebay sellers that are quite reputable and trustworthy. Mike Ladzinski, otherwise known as Goodknightmike, is one, and Jackie Caswell, otherwise known as Jaqueline3663 is another.
Yeah...I'm guessing most of the antique Jaques out there are just sitting in private hands/collections...probably just need to monitor auctions and see what comes up. It's pretty amazing to see a set like the one I posted in that kind of condition at 170 years old (although according to the site every set is inspected and "restored" where necessary, so who knows what kind of work was done to it (although I'm sure it was done tastefully)).
You would never know if the set had repairs if it was done right.
rcmacmillan wrote:
I suspect that 3500GBP might be the least he would ask for it. A numbered set like that could go as high as five figures, depending on the amount of repair that was done.
Yep...I figured as much because he has inferior sets listed at 3500 GBP and no price quote on this set; considering the fact that 3500 GBP is out of my ballpark I knew I had no shot at this lol. Fortunately for me it's too big (club size) so I won't be tempted to break the bank.
If it is a I have to have then that's cool but I would not count on it be a investment.
Over time and the right buyer it may be but their are less chess set collectors with money than Rolex collectors and other antiques.
rcmacmillan wrote:
crusaderwabbet wrote:
If it is a I have to have then that's cool but I would not count on it be a investment.
Depends. The set that MGT88 referred to above is an investment grade set. The numbered original Jaques sets are very rare, especially in the full Club (4.4") size. You are absolutely correct for most collectibles of any type... watches, trains, pens, dolls, etc. It is only the absolute best and rarest of any of these that are truly investment grade. In watches, Rolex, IWC, Patek Phillipe, and Ulysses Nardin all hold their value and appreciate with age. Mont Blanc and old Waterman pens likewise... but only the rarest. Most people collect things because they love them, not because they expect to make money off of them.
Interesting note about it being investment grade. My chess equipment is for personal enjoyment and for passing on; if it happens to retain value or appreciate and my future heirs decide to sell it, then so be it.
Sep 20, 2020
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#15
I agree that it would be a crying shame to own a valuable chess set only for the sake of owning it but never seeing the light of day. Like a stolen Picasso hidden up in a forgotten attic.
If the set was like a Picasso it should stay in the attic or be sold..😎 I would prefer a Vermeire to display.
May 7, 2021
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#17
MGT88 wrote:
This set really has my eye: https://www.antiquechessshop.com/products/ref1838-jaques-staunton-club-chessmen-box/. Unfortunately, I think it's just a bit too big for my tastes (4.4" king) and Tim is probably going to ask for at least 3500 GBP, which is just way out of my ballpark. If this set was closer to $1000 CAD and in the 3.5/4" height range I'd probably take a shot at it.
Well, that set has gone now. Yes, these antique chess sets go for a lot of money these days. But take your price of 3,500 and consider that some of these reproduction sets go for almost 1,000. Yet those sets don't have any history, they aren't original Jaques and they are made in India most likely (I love India for a million reasons but I don't really want my "Jaques" style chess sets made there!). The knights are also usually off - even in the most expensive reproductions sets.
For just over three times more money, you get the real deal. Nothing comes close. I have a couple of antique sets, and I look at them every single day. There isn't a single day that I think, wow, I paid way too much for that. But if that day ever did arrive, I could easily make my money back on them - and more. Try saying that about a reproduction set!
May 7, 2021
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#18
MGT88 wrote:
The only "bonafide" antique dealer that I'm personally aware of is Frank Camaratta (https://chessantiques.com/), however, this is simply due to the fact that I've never really sought out antique sets/boards and have not seen much in the way of antique dealer discussion on these forums. I have come across a number of antique dealer sites (for example, https://www.antiquechessshop.com/products/ref1838-jaques-staunton-club-chessmen-box/) and thought it might be a good idea to start a thread wherein we can compile a list of "reputable" dealers that we can be confident doing business with.
I'll start; I have only purchased one antique item, which was from Frank, and I (as well as many others) can vouch for his business (I had a great experience/received a great product).
By the way, I can recommend Tim Millard of antiquechessshop.com. I have bought a couple of sets from him and it has always been a good experience. It's hard to tell how much restoration he does on a given set (obviously this varies) but all I can say is that they are absolutely gorgeous. Not sets you would want to play blitz with, though!
May 7, 2021
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#19
Yeah just on Monday, May 1 Tim had about five sets of Jacques and he sold four out of 5 x 11 a.m. Pacific Coast time
Definitely DO NOT post anything on here that you might be interested in buying yourself. There are many lurkers here who read but do not post. Any linked deals on valuable or interesting unique vintage sets will be snatched up in the blink of an eye without even an acknowledgement or "thank you for the heads up" from the buyer. Collectors on the hunt are like that.
The only "bonafide" antique dealer that I'm personally aware of is Frank Camaratta (https://chessantiques.com/), however, this is simply due to the fact that I've never really sought out antique sets/boards and have not seen much in the way of antique dealer discussion on these forums. I have come across a number of antique dealer sites (for example, https://www.antiquechessshop.com/products/ref1838-jaques-staunton-club-chessmen-box/) and thought it might be a good idea to start a thread wherein we can compile a list of "reputable" dealers that we can be confident doing business with.
I'll start; I have only purchased one antique item, which was from Frank, and I (as well as many others) can vouch for his business (I had a great experience/received a great product).