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FIDE Transgender Policies

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AngryPuffer
Syntax_Error_64 wrote:
NotMagnusCarlesn wrote:

ok, i'm not saying that men are better then women in chess or that women are dumb, but think of it this way. The top women player in the world has less elo than magnus, so magnus could say he was trans, and then farm elo in the women's world cup. so that's basically the policy

There is a lot more involved than just "saying your trans". Coming out is a horrible, difficult thing, and can lead to permanent separation from loved ones. No sane person would fake that just to "farm Elo in the Women's World Cup".

there is not a lot more involved

if you tell people that you are trans then they will look at you strangely. wondering why you are still playing make believe or think that you are weird

lonniespiel
AngryPuffer wrote:
Syntax_Error_64 wrote:
NotMagnusCarlesn wrote:

ok, i'm not saying that men are better then women in chess or that women are dumb, but think of it this way. The top women player in the world has less elo than magnus, so magnus could say he was trans, and then farm elo in the women's world cup. so that's basically the policy

There is a lot more involved than just "saying your trans". Coming out is a horrible, difficult thing, and can lead to permanent separation from loved ones. No sane person would fake that just to "farm Elo in the Women's World Cup".

there is not a lot more involved

if you tell people that you are trans then they will look at you strangely. wondering why you are still playing make believe or think that you are weird

Legally there's a lot more involved. As soon as the law accepts their gender change they will be seen as legally having changed from their birth gender. Irrespective of what anyone thinks about that. And until they legally have changed gender, then they are still in transition and will be classified as their birth gender, irrespective of what they or anyone else thinks

MightierQ
AngryPuffer wrote:

there is not a lot more involved

if you tell people that you are trans then they will look at you strangely. wondering why you are still playing make believe or think that you are weird

I do so enjoy the irony of someone that doesn't even know anyone who is trans telling someone who is trans how much is involved in transitioning.

Coddiwompler
badger_song wrote:

Coddi----Shouldn't you be starting another thread for bigots ?

I'll let you do it

killxerr

I recently started taking chess more seriously. I am awfully bad at it, but that has nothing to do with my answer. I was very surprised to see that chess competitions are segregated by gender. I honestly did not know that. I agree with many here, I think this not being a physical game, competitions should be open to any gender. This would be a good way of identifying and adding more information to the biological differences between male and females. I personally do not think it is a matter of IQ, or one being better than the other, might be (as usual) the difference in interests between men and women.

If FIDE opens the competition then no one would have any reason to cry about.

lfPatriotGames
killxerr wrote:

I recently started taking chess more seriously. I am awfully bad at it, but that has nothing to do with my answer. I was very surprised to see that chess competitions are segregated by gender. I honestly did not know that. I agree with many here, I think this not being a physical game, competitions should be open to any gender. This would be a good way of identifying and adding more information to the biological differences between male and females. I personally do not think it is a matter of IQ, or one being better than the other, might be (as usual) the difference in interests between men and women.

If FIDE opens the competition then no one would have any reason to cry about.

Many competitions are open. Probably even most. I don't know about the highest levels but my guess is the rules don't prohibit women from participating in mens events or open events. My guess is the only limitation is men participating in women events.

I think this is to prevent a small group of people from dominating every type of event. If every competition were open to everyone, then those of lesser ability would soon quit, because they could never succeed on a competitive level. It's no different than age limitations. What would happen if adults were allowed to participate in junior events? The kids would just give up.

I think it makes sense to have different events for different types of people. That way everyone can enjoy a fun, challenging competition.

killxerr
lfPatriotGames wrote:
killxerr wrote:

I recently started taking chess more seriously. I am awfully bad at it, but that has nothing to do with my answer. I was very surprised to see that chess competitions are segregated by gender. I honestly did not know that. I agree with many here, I think this not being a physical game, competitions should be open to any gender. This would be a good way of identifying and adding more information to the biological differences between male and females. I personally do not think it is a matter of IQ, or one being better than the other, might be (as usual) the difference in interests between men and women.

If FIDE opens the competition then no one would have any reason to cry about.

Many competitions are open. Probably even most. I don't know about the highest levels but my guess is the rules don't prohibit women from participating in mens events or open events. My guess is the only limitation is men participating in women events.

I think this is to prevent a small group of people from dominating every type of event. If every competition were open to everyone, then those of lesser ability would soon quit, because they could never succeed on a competitive level. It's no different than age limitations. What would happen if adults were allowed to participate in junior events? The kids would just give up.

I think it makes sense to have different events for different types of people. That way everyone can enjoy a fun, challenging competition.

If there was just one open category there would be no need for divisions other than by age. The thing is that segregation implies that men are better at chess than women. Not saying that is not the case, or that it is the case, I have just found it odd.

MightierQ
killxerr wrote:

If there was just one open category there would be no need for divisions other than by age. The thing is that segregation implies that men are better at chess than women. Not saying that is not the case, or that it is the case, I have just found it odd.

I suppose we should finally acknowledge that folks who have never served in the military are better at chess than veterans, too.
https://new.uschess.org/63rd-annual-us-armed-forces-open-chess-championship

(disclaimer: I'm a vet)

lfPatriotGames
killxerr wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
killxerr wrote:

I recently started taking chess more seriously. I am awfully bad at it, but that has nothing to do with my answer. I was very surprised to see that chess competitions are segregated by gender. I honestly did not know that. I agree with many here, I think this not being a physical game, competitions should be open to any gender. This would be a good way of identifying and adding more information to the biological differences between male and females. I personally do not think it is a matter of IQ, or one being better than the other, might be (as usual) the difference in interests between men and women.

If FIDE opens the competition then no one would have any reason to cry about.

Many competitions are open. Probably even most. I don't know about the highest levels but my guess is the rules don't prohibit women from participating in mens events or open events. My guess is the only limitation is men participating in women events.

I think this is to prevent a small group of people from dominating every type of event. If every competition were open to everyone, then those of lesser ability would soon quit, because they could never succeed on a competitive level. It's no different than age limitations. What would happen if adults were allowed to participate in junior events? The kids would just give up.

I think it makes sense to have different events for different types of people. That way everyone can enjoy a fun, challenging competition.

If there was just one open category there would be no need for divisions other than by age. The thing is that segregation implies that men are better at chess than women. Not saying that is not the case, or that it is the case, I have just found it odd.

Yes. Men ARE better at chess than women. Overall anyway. There are always exceptions but dividing competitions into classes makes sense to me so that everyone can enjoy the competition. Divisions by age, gender, even ability, makes sense. There are even divisions based on the ability to see.

People who can see, overall, would have an advantage in the blind competition. People who are older, overall, would have an advantage playing against juniors. And people who are male, overall, would have an advantage playing against females. I dont believe there is any limitation on the disadvantaged from playing in a higher category, but it wouldn't make sense for those of higher ability to compete in the lesser categories.

badger_song

Some of my best friends are black people.

Kyobir

I feel like some sort of protest should happen...

MikeCruise

LOL

seasideman
WoodyTBeagle wrote:

6. The idea that gender and sex are different is a silly academic construct that seems to have taken purchase. Our biology determines our sex and gender. We can choose to identify with it or not - see 5 above - but that doesn't change physical realities.

Biological sex is quite different to gender: "Gender includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of being a man, woman or other gender identity. Depending on the context, this may include sex-base structures (i.e. gender roles) and gender expression".

This has been the accepted meaning since the 1970s. Gender is a social construct, sex is biological.

Badchesserrr4486999
seasideman написал:
WoodyTBeagle wrote:

6. The idea that gender and sex are different is a silly academic construct that seems to have taken purchase. Our biology determines our sex and gender. We can choose to identify with it or not - see 5 above - but that doesn't change physical realities.

Biological sex is quite different to gender: "Gender includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of being a man, woman or other gender identity. Depending on the context, this may include sex-base structures (i.e. gender roles) and gender expression".

This has been the accepted meaning since the 1970s. Gender is a social construct, sex is biological.

Screw you i want the meaning accepted since the 100s!

seasideman
killxerr wrote:

I was very surprised to see that chess competitions are segregated by gender. I honestly did not know that. I agree with many here, I think this not being a physical game, competitions should be open to any gender.

Whilst there are women's tournaments, most tournaments are "open", which means anyone can enter. Ding Liren is not the men's world champion, he is the "open" world champion.

seasideman
Badchesserrr4486999 wrote:
 

...i want the meaning accepted since the 100s!

Well bad luck then! happy.png

MiguelUAB

I think that chess is the fairest game of all. 2 persons. One board. The same rules for both. Almost no luck involved, you decide your fate with each move. That's one reason why I love it.

From there, what happens outside the board is politics and human confrontation that is not at all solved by fair logic, but for emotionally charged arguments. I find this sad to watch.

My opinion? There is not a "men" group. There is an open tournament and then a separated women tournament, right? The women category is already filled with players that will be impacted with this decision, therefore let's make a referendum where only the current people in that category can vote. Then respect their decision and move on.

MiguelUAB
lonniespiel wrote:
NotMagnusCarlesn wrote:

ok, i'm not saying that men are better then women in chess or that women are dumb, but think of it this way. The top women player in the world has less elo than magnus, so magnus could say he was trans, and then farm elo in the women's world cup. so that's basically the policy

No, Magnus can't just say he is trans. There is a process for transitioning which takes on average 2-3 years including medical procedures and psychological evaluations. Then you have to be legally recognised by the law which not all countries do.

FIDE and bigots are scaremongering. It's not an issue in chess

In Spain it is only necessary to go to the administration at any given moment and state that you want to change your sex in the register. Three months after that you have to come back to sign some papers and that's it. You don't need to visit the doctor a single time and nor change your physical aspect or social attitudes.

In fact the politician responsible of this law said that this was a necessary step to "unpathologize" the fact of being trans. Which therefore is what she would think that you are doing by assuming as a given that all the process you mentioned is necessary.

It is already happening.

lonniespiel
MiguelUAB wrote:
lonniespiel wrote:
NotMagnusCarlesn wrote:

ok, i'm not saying that men are better then women in chess or that women are dumb, but think of it this way. The top women player in the world has less elo than magnus, so magnus could say he was trans, and then farm elo in the women's world cup. so that's basically the policy

No, Magnus can't just say he is trans. There is a process for transitioning which takes on average 2-3 years including medical procedures and psychological evaluations. Then you have to be legally recognised by the law which not all countries do.

FIDE and bigots are scaremongering. It's not an issue in chess

In Spain it is only necessary to go to the administration at any given moment and state that you want to change your sex in the register. Three months after that you have to come back to sign some papers and that's it. You don't need to visit the doctor a single time and nor change your physical aspect or social attitudes.

In fact the politician responsible of this law said that this was a necessary step to "unpathologize" the fact of being trans. Which therefore is what she would think that you are doing by assuming as a given that all the process you mentioned is necessary.

It is already happening.

I didn't know about this. Excellent, it seems that Spain are taking seriously UN guidelines outlining what States should be doing to prohibit discrimination against and safeguard freedom of expression of all LGBT people.

Good job Spain

lonniespiel

Ok, so I just read about Spanish Transgender laws and it appears the identity bill has only passed the lower chamber and isn't ratified yet. Hopefully it will make it through the upper chamber.

Unfortunately, Spain's LGBT policy isn't shared by others and at the moment, most countries that even accept Transgender people as legal require medical reports and psychological assessments before allowing them to change gender

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