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Benoni Defense: Is Qe2 Thematic?

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KeSetoKaiba

I just finished playing a chess game where I had white and had a slight advantage after castling in this position. However, the post-game analysis revealed that Qe2 was stronger. I then messed around with the engine for a few seconds and Qe2 kept showing up in variations. What's the point of Qe2 here? Is this a thematic pattern to this opening? I don't think it's simplistically getting the queen off the backrank and I also don't think it is to defend e4 because Qc2 looks more natural for that (potential battery on h7 long-term), but Qc2 was also inferior to Qe2 according to the engine. 

I realize that castling was only an "innaccuracy" and sometimes deeper engine depth picks up things better, but I sense there is something to be learned behind Qe2, yet I don't currently understand what.

Brayden2500

I would have played g4 Be3 Qd2

Qc2 is a good move, but I think the reason the engine likes Qe2 is because It allows the bishop to drop back and more importantly defends a6 b5 much better better.

Brayden2500

but there are lots of ways to play this position that are completely fine

KeSetoKaiba
Brayden2500 wrote:

I would have played g4 Be3 Qd2

Qc2 is a good move, but I think the reason the engine likes Qe2 is because It allows the bishop to drop back and more importantly defends a6 b5 much better better.

I like that g4-Be3-Qd2 idea. I play similarly in some lines of the Samisch King's Indian Defense as white. Qe2 does also do slightly more against ...a6 and ...b5. Those are good observations happy.png

jomanabarghoth

The move Qe2 is superior to Qc2 because it offers greater activity and control of key squares, enabling more effective attacks and restricting Black's options. Qc2, while defensively sound, is less dynamic and doesn't leverage the queen's full potential in this position

Hope that helps 

Cale302

Sorry, been off and on in chess.

Cale302

^ might be off topic but anyways.

Coach_Kashchei

I just finished playing a chess game where I had white and had a slight advantage after castling in this position.

You're not slightly but significantly better in this position after 0-0. And you're better because of space advantage and very cramped black's position. That's why you're better regardless of which move you're going to play here.

However, the post-game analysis revealed that Qe2 was stronger.

It's not stronger. It just has tiny higher engine evaluation. And it's not the same. Even modern engines making mistakes in evaluations. In some endgames SF gives +0.8 evaluation to a completely drawn positions, it still doesn't understand fortresses, etc. For example, the position below SF17 evaluates as -4 and winning for black. Good luck to win it in a practical game grin.png

For every human there is no difference between 1,5 and 1,6 in positions like yours. These numbers are for engines, not for humans. That is very important to understand.

In general engines tend to be more useful in positions with concrete play and less useful in rather closed positions like you got. SF17s evaluation of the first 5 lines in the position on your picture is almost identical. The difference between the first line and the 5th line is less than 0.15 which is irrelevant when you're much better everywhere. In rather closed position you don't need a move, you need a plan!

I then messed around with the engine for a few seconds and Qe2 kept showing up in variations. What's the point of Qe2 here? Is this a thematic pattern to this opening? I don't think it's simplistically getting the queen off the backrank and I also don't think it is to defend e4 because Qc2 looks more natural for that (potential battery on h7 long-term), but Qc2 was also inferior to Qe2 according to the engine. 

Regarding Qe2 and Qc2. Obviously, both moves are playable. The difference is that if you play Qc2 then after natural Na6 by black you more or less must play a3 to stop Nb4. And a3 could be considered as a tempo loss if your plan is to play on the king side. But if your play is connected with b4 pawn break than there is no problem with a3.

I realize that castling was only an "innaccuracy"

0-0 is somewhat dubious because it is limiting your options. Because of closed center there is no reason to run away with your king and there are no open files for your rook either. That's why 0-0 for now is kinda a useless move. It was better to stay flexible in the center for now because you have also ideas on the king side as well. Black has a hook pawn on h6. That's why plan with Rg1, g4-g5, checkmate makes a lot of sense. In such situation you don't want to see your king on g1 and it'd be better to castle long later on. If you choose this plan then you better not play Qc2 because a3 against Nb4 would be a potentially weaking move and waste of time.

Sorry for so many letters. But it's hard to explain plans on the forum for me. I usually do it better in private conversations.

ninjaswat

The reason why 0-0 may be an inaccuracy, is, when white plays an early h3 in the Czech Benoni, the idea is often g4 & a4 to restrict the thematic pawn breaks of black.

On Qc2 vs Qe2:

- Qc2 defends f5, which black usually has more than enough support to get through if g4 isn't played

- Qe2 defends b5, where the opposite is true, and keeps the queen able to go to h5 in the far future, on top of keeping it near the kingside where white's expansion has the most ability to pressure black

I play the Czech Benoni as my main opening currently, so that's what I've noticed for now haha

Mickdonedee

No, Qe2 before castling is not thematic. For example, Be3->Qd2 pressures the f6 Knight to h7 which allows O-O-O. d2 and e2 can also be used early to switch one of the Knights to the other side. Perhaps, the inaccuracy was due to commiting to castlng kingside too early?

KeSetoKaiba

Thank you @coach_kashchei and @ninjaswat for both of your in-depth explanations. I'm also the same way with explaning a lot of things in-person or over voice call while teaching, so I completely understand @coach_kashchei What you said about remaining flexible with the closed center also resonated with me a lot. I'm definitely considering Rg1 and g4 ideas now when I previously never gave them much thought in this opening.

buttercups11

I like both moves lol

But I think c2 is about a bishop queen battery

KeSetoKaiba

Fair point.

Optimissed

Hi, I prefer Qe2 because it's looking at the opponent's king. White will play Be3, which leaves b2 undefended. White can respond aggressively to any attempt at Qb6 by black. Keep black guessing regarding your 0-0 or 0-0-0 and over-protect b2 while clearing the back rank to connect rooks. Qe2 is what they used to call "a high class waiting move". Black has definite problems regarding how to develop, so don't give anything away just yet. That's why 0-0 is weaker. I tend to play Be3 Qd2 more often in blitz. In slowplay, I play more positionally. I know h6 is a target but don't be too obvious and also the Nf3 might want to go to d2.

Chesslover0_0
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

I just finished playing a chess game where I had white and had a slight advantage after castling in this position. However, the post-game analysis revealed that Qe2 was stronger. I then messed around with the engine for a few seconds and Qe2 kept showing up in variations. What's the point of Qe2 here? Is this a thematic pattern to this opening? I don't think it's simplistically getting the queen off the backrank and I also don't think it is to defend e4 because Qc2 looks more natural for that (potential battery on h7 long-term), but Qc2 was also inferior to Qe2 according to the engine.

I realize that castling was only an "innaccuracy" and sometimes deeper engine depth picks up things better, but I sense there is something to be learned behind Qe2, yet I don't currently understand what.

Wow that's very closed, yeah those types of games happen from time to time.

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

The idea is that white should castle LONG here, not short.

The white king will feel safer on the queen side, ...f7-f5 break by black loses in strength, and white can also attack easier on the king side with pawns, when he is castled opposite flank.

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

The idea is bring out the queen, bring out white's dark square bishop and castle long.

Quite typical of similar King's Indian structures.