Pirc 3. Bd3 Help
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How do you feel about transposing to the King's Indian. It looks like Black can get a favorable KID out of this. The desire to punish 3. Bd3 might be too strong. It's hard to make a losing mistake on move 3, especially a move that develops a piece and protects a central pawn. However, in usualy KID setups I don't think this bishop is on d3, so that may be the best punishment there is.
Jan 18, 2008
0
#3
3. Bd3 is an attempt to avoid the normal Pirc lines and be able to play c4 at some stage. e5 is about best but the reply d5 is probably not the best. I think I would play Nbd7 at this point intending to follow up with Nc5 and Nxd3.
Thanks so far guys
"I think I would play Nbd7 at this point intending to follow up with Nc5 and Nxd3."
I would keep looking for something better than moving the same piece three times just to trade a knight for my opponent's bad bishop in a closed game.
Its early days but i dont see anything wrong with blacks position. Whites bishop on d3 is bad and d5 has given up the c5 square so later on in the game a preventitive move like ...a5 would allow a knight to sit on c5. Black can fianchetto on the queenside and eventually pressure whites centre and chip away at it with an eventual ...c6 (at the right moment, not too early). If white supports his centre placing more pawns on white squares like f3 and c4, then his bishop on d3 will be horrible! Pushing pawns so far so early, many holes are created. Pawns cant move backwards. Black can fianchetto kingside too and try for an eventual ...f5. It early days so many things are possible. They are just some thoughts i would have if i was the black player. In saying that, i dont play the Pirc but have played the black side of similar set up with white pawns on d4 and e5 (as opposed to d4 and e5). Maybe you could post the full game? or at least some more moves into the middlegame?!
Sharukin wrote: 3. Bd3 is an attempt to avoid the normal Pirc lines and be able to play c4 at some stage. e5 is about best but the reply d5 is probably not the best. I think I would play Nbd7 at this point intending to follow up with Nc5 and Nxd3.
no way! that is a sin!! Blacks knight is a beast if it can sit safely on c5. The position is closed and whites bishop isnt useful on d3 at the moment so i wouldnt exchange, its simply bad. If black becomes too cramped he can exchange pieces for more room to maneuver but i think ...f5 idea would relieve some issues regarding space if needs be. White has got a space advantage, but i dont see any targets for white at the moment. its early days, just dont trade his bad bishop for a good knight without any gain in another imbalance.
Jan 18, 2008
0
#8
Loomis wrote:
"I think I would play Nbd7 at this point intending to follow up with Nc5 and Nxd3."
I would keep looking for something better than moving the same piece three times just to trade a knight for my opponent's bad bishop in a closed game.
You have a point but I don't like the huge amount of theory required to play KID. I have tried the knight moves with some success, possibly because white was confused by the apparent foolishness of moving the same piece three times! The main reason is actually to avoid a line of the KID which does have a bishop on d3, albeit only on move 5. It is apparently played by quite often by Yasser Seirawan. Whatever, I don't like it so I play to avoid it!
Transpose into the King's Indian and let him overextend. YMMV
I play the pirc regularly and face 3. Bd3 a lot. I usually just go on with my normal development, play g7, then fianchetto then castle and after that see how the center is so i know whether to play e5 or the usually better c6 or c7.
You are one sneaky...
colle-pirc wrote: I play the pirc regularly and face 3. Bd3 a lot. I usually just go on with my normal development, play g7, then fianchetto then castle and after that see how the center is so i know whether to play e5 or the usually better c6 or c7.
Seems reasonable. The thing I was worried about was 4. e5 by white . I can see that 4. ... Nd5 5. c4 Nb6 transposes to Alekhine where black has played g6, which i guess cant be good. What I missed was Nh5 since the pawn covers the N. Then g4 is rubbish. Like I say though, CM liked 3. ... e5
Thanks for the help everyone
Lev Alburt and Alexander Chernin give the move 3. Bd3 some treatment in chapter 23 of Pirc Alert!, but for the Pirc they only consider 4. c3. They don't even look at the structure with the White pawns on d5 and e4 until near the end of the chapter and even then it's in the context of the Modern transposing to the Pirc. The analysis they provide is below.
However, they do note that 3. ... e5 is likely the best reply. It is possible that the position might transpose into something similar to a KID, but I agree with what was said above about trying to put a Knight on c5, a Bishop on b7, and playing c6. It's not clear to me whether fianchettoing the King's Bishop is good, though, as Be7 seems to do the job just as well.
ViperX883, thanks for posting that game. Is Pirc Alert! useful? It seems to be popular book. The game above seems to clear up what i said in my post about fianchetto on both sides, eventual ...c6 and a nice outpost on c5 for a black knight. [The position ends up with a white e4,d5 centre*]
I searched some games and i found that Blacks most popular response to 3.Bd3 is 3...Nc6, while some have tried 3...e5, and a game between 2 2000-2100 players 3...e6 was tried and draw agreed after 21 moves. Interesting positions seem to arise from this opening. Best of luck with it mxd4play.
Hi Graw,
I think Pirc Alert! is extremely useful. The second section of the book is devoted entirely to strategic themes and underpinnings of the various Pirc setups and it is fantastic. It certainly helped me get started, and I think that anyone interested in playing the Pirc regularly as Black can get something out of it, particularly if it's a new opening for you. The third section of the book is more explicit theory, ie move by move analysis, and is somewhat dated at this point. However, The Pirc in Black and White is great for getting up to speed on recent developments in the Pirc.
I recently started playing the Pirc online. My first OTB game with it and i got 3. Bd3. Not knowing this move , I used a lot of time to play 3. ... e5. I thought Bd3 must be a mistake and tried to punish it, but although I got a good attack , I ended up losing the game. I put the moves into CM to see what it did with Bd3 and it also played e5. However, whites advantage was given as + 0.5 into the middlegame. I dont have 3.Bd3 in my opening books. It looks like 3. ... e5 is virtually forced (in the larger sense) But that gives white a space advantage after d5 which seems to more than offset the blocking in of the KB. Any black Pirc players have any suggestions?