Turning a scandi into a French

I have been trying a bunch of different stuff lately,

but I play Italian/giuco against e4/e5

french I play the advance and try to get Milner Barry or Paulsen

sicilian I play your favorite smith morra and it’s transpositions like the alapin

scandi i play the main line and this e5 that has incensed this forum

caro kann i play the advance tal, or fantasy, I prefer the fantasy.

As black

1.e5 I play caro kann which I have about 1200 games with and have studied most variations

1.d4 Indian game, and now learning the dutch

1.c3 I play the reverse Sicilian or the kings English

This repertoire will get to me 2000 blitz and rapid I guarantee it.

Good comparison of the two lines. Also, this sort of explains why some Caro players, upon seeing the Advance variation, will immediately play 3...c5 and accept the loss of tempo. Ideally, some such position as seen below, gives black an unblocked LSB, and white's extra pawn is doubled, and soon to be under fire after e6.

Bxe5 anyone?

Yes, 2.exd5 is best move.

Black doesn’t play 7…Qxb4.

They often retreat with 7…Qc7.

Its not really good for them to take b4 pawn.

White position is 100% sound and strong.

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The example you showed is completely different position vs. the line I showed.

The repertoire book I use has 4 g3 Nf6 5 Bg2 Nc6 and if white plays 6 Nge2 then 6...h5! (exclam by the author). Says white will need to know what he is doing here, 7 h3 more or less being forced as 7 h4 is too weakening, 7 d3 is unpleasant for white, and 7 d4 is not quite as unpleasant for white, according to the author. No mention of 7 b4 here, but black's knight on c6 puts a damper on that. I like this book a lot but I haven't studied this chapter much at all. I have met 4 g3 one time I think but once again its been so seldom to meet non mainstream moves by white since I took up playing 3...Qa5. I tend to neglect such chapters like I imagine many Scandinavian players also do, adding more weight for white to play 4 g3.

After 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qa5 4 Bc4 Nf6 my book say 5 d3 should not be underestimated. That white is waiting for 5...Bf5 when white is ready to play Ng1-e2-g3. I'm told to dodge that with 5...a6 with the bishop probably winding up on b7.

The blackmar-diemar is not supposed to be all that good but I don't like facing it. It's dangerous to deal with and I have lost badly to it. It's also psychological with me, I'm trying to dictate the game right off the bat with the scandi but white immediately takes that from me. I have a friend who doesn't believe in psychology, only theory and playing the board. That's why he doesn't mind facing the Austrian attack when he plays the pirc, whereas the Austiran Attack is a main reason why I do not consider playing the pirc.

I was using Smerdon's Scandinavian when playing 2...Nf6. The portuguese is used in his book and while it has always been suspect black has had some good times playing it. However, SF has pretty much debunked it now. Also, there are many exclam moves needed to do well in the book, and I'm not much of a constant exclams player, I prefer a bit smoother waters. As far as 3...Qd8 goes my experience was I was having much trouble trying to beat players significantly lower rated. Solid but just too lackluster to me. As far as 3...Qd6 goes I was getting bad games against Shirov's 7 f4 despite trying several ways to meet it. It's unpleasant to play against. Besides, this book I have on the 3...Qa5 is written the way I like. The book is The Scandinavian for Club Players. The author not only presents a repertoire for black but he also teaches in the book.

Once again, I am going to point out that 2.e5 is a huge inaccuracy because any player playing Black with common sense won't play 2...e6. Yes, if Black has no clue what he is doing and plays 2...e6, then yes, White's fine.

However, 1.e4 d5 2.e5? c5! and 1.e4 d5 2.e5? Bf5 are both Advantage Black.

You can continue your delusional imaginations that Black will play 2...e6. BLACK WILL NOT PLAY 2...e6 UNLESS HE IS CLUELESS!

49% win rate for white, 48% for black in 1.4 million games on lichess. But I may as well just resign after the game ending blunder 2e5 lol. I acknowledged it’s not the best line, it’s just something different, and it works. I get to dictate the way the game goes, not black, and if I go down .2 to .3 that’s probably worth it.

Remember, though, 2.d4 does not guarantee you get a BDG. As mentioned before, black can transpose into a French with 2...e6, or a Caro-Kann with c6. I mouse-slipped 2...c5?! in a blitz game one time and actually won easily. However, full disclosure: I tried it a few more times and got clobbered. Don't try 2...c5 at home.

There seems to be confusion on this thread.

The move b4 isn’t a Gambit.

Its fancy pawn trade which isn’t recommended for Black to do.

You can see why they play Qc7 now.

White generally only plays b4 after Black has moved LSB. It makes the b7 pawn undefended.

There is a Gambit line with b4 which can be fun, but it doesn’t have the move g3 involved.

The g3 line isn’t a Gambit line.

b4 is 1 of the main continuation in g3 line, but it only really happens if Black plays the above way.

The engine/strongest line for Black is below line:

No one ever plays it.

I only face it when I am playing against player who is using engine. Than they get ban and my points come back anyway so it’s not really a line.

Bf5 or Bg4 are the main moves human players play.

They try to develop the Bishop and follow up with like e6 move. They try to get the bishop out of pawn chain.

(1.e4 d5 2.e5) This move surrenders the control of f5 to Black. And loses time at that- not a good combination indeed! No wonder I consider it anti-positional or in the best of cases completely harmless.

GM Vassilios Kotronias, "The Safest Scandinavian reloaded".

For the record, the GM likes 2...c5, although 2...Bf5 is just as good.

I understand it’s not as good as the main line. It’s not a blunder though. It’s just something different for a scandi player to think about, they have to play a completely different game than what they planned on playing. Engine and database results have it at 49% white and 48% black… this is in 1.4 million games on lichess. 2.e5 occurs in about 1/45 games that a scandi player will face. It’s not a blunder, it’s not the best move and far from the best line. It’s just a position I think I can play well as a surprise weapon, that’s my only point.

The move 2.e5 is a mistake and I don’t know why your trying to argue it isn’t.

If you want to play bad moves, you can do it!

No one would blame you.

There is a bunch of garbage lines in Chess people play because it’s fun.

The issue is when you play bad move. Than try to convince others it’s a good move.

It’s a sick delusion which ignores reality.

If I played the move 2. e5, I would be furious with myself because it would of been mouse slip as my intended move was exd5.

I would be so hard on myself for allowing such a tragedy befall on my position and your sitting here excited saying 2.e5 is amazing.

How misguided you are to think what your doing is anything other than bad?

The French & Caro Kan Defenses are top tier world class opening which hold their own against 1.e4. Those Black Defenses are tough to beat as white under normal conditions.

Your 2.e5 move is giving them an Improved Version!

Its the worst thing you could ever possibly do.

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‘It’s sad that I am the one having to tell you this because overall I play a lot of weird controversial lines. I have recommended for people to play Pterodactyl Defense, Lizard Defense, Clardeon Court, Crab Opening, Whale Opening, the list goes on

Those lines are fun, but they are not considered very good.

2.e5 is playable, but it’s not good.

It’s mistake and it’s bad.

You have to be honest about the situation.

Don’t you see how bad it is?

I went back and read what I wrote in this thread and not once did I say it’s amazing or even good. I just said I’ve been beating some advanced players with it. At most I could see considering it an inaccuracy, because the main line is good for white and instead 2.e5 is .3, but if a player has seen the line with the best move 1600 times, and the line with the innacuracy 20 times, and I know the variations that result from it, I’m playing the innacuracy.

You never said amazing or good which is true, but you implied/inferred it.

You said the following:

- You said it’s not an inaccuracy.

- You said it’s not a mistake.

- You said it’s not a blunder.

Than you began saying how you been beating high level players with it giving the illusion it’s better than what people say it is.

The above is the main controversy which made several people comment on your thread trying to tell you otherwise. 
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Now, your last message was the first message I have read from you claiming 2.e5 is an error of any sort.

You are now calling it an inaccuracy.

Clearly, people wouldn’t have came to the thread to argue with you that your wrong if that was your original position from the beginning.

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Honestly, I have played a lot of lines in my chess career which people & engines considered bad.

However, I play the lines because they bring me joy.

Having fun is part of chess too!

If the move 2.e5 brings you joy, I say go for it.

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It’s not my cup of tea so I probably wouldn’t play it.

I would even go as far as to say I think the move 2.e5 is even worse vs. an inaccuracy.

I would label it as a mistake.

I was once told by programmer/chess player how a computer engine measures/scores a chess move.

Whether or not the below metric is still true I don’t know, but the metric I was told was the following:

A Computer Engine at the time would label a move an inaccuracy if it shifted the evaluation of a position by 0.5 or half a pawn.

- If evaluation shifted by 1.0-2.0(1 or 2 pawn),The engine would label the position as a Mistake.

- If evaluation shifted by 3.0 or greater(Minor Piece), The engine would label the position as a Blunder.

So I think the move 2.e5 is shifting the evaluation in Blacks favor by 1.50.

White initial position with the 1st player move advantage is often measured as 0.30.

So the move 2.e5 in my opinion is going to change the evaluation to -1.20 in Black Favor.

A computer engine isn’t going to say -1.20 in this position because Whites’s move e5 is space gaining move.
Engines as well as Great Chess players value space.

It’s impossible to truly know what amount the engine will give to white for extra space.

I would only give 0.25, but engine might give a lot more. It’s impossible to know.

The real issue is White is going to face a long term problem. The engine can’t see the problem.

- White is down 1 tempo

- Black is up 1 active piece (LSB)

This is a double whammy for White.

The effects of the above are not present, yet. They are long term effects.

Its move 2 and we understand, but engine doesn’t.

An engine evaluates 2.e5 as dropping half a pawn, and also giving Black instant equality (see attached pic). And the move cannot even be seen as space gaining, as white has to find an acceptable way to protect that pawn after say 2...c5 followed by ...Nc6. He either has to play the very committal f2-f4, or try to throw in c2-c3 and d3-d4 which is a dream Caro advance- actually all black needs to know is avoiding (1.e4 d5 2.e5?! c5) 3.c3 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.cxd4 Qb6?! 6.Nc3! when white even has a slight edge.

The real space gaining move (and that with gain of time!) is naturally 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 etc (white is controlling 3 central squares, namely d4,e4 and e5, and Black only d5 after a few moves).

Still, if you possess the ever famous "instict of the bad move", then feel free to play 2.e5, 2.Nh3, 2.Qh5 or whichever "interesting" move enters your mind.

I’ve been trying that leonhardt gambit and I like that much better instead so I’m going to go with that.