1/3
not 1/6
No.
If you waste a tempo you go from having the on-move advantage (+1/6) to a position where the opponent has it (-1/6). So you detoriate the position by 1/3.
Well,i'm really late to the conversation but i still want to share my opinion on the values of fairy pieces.These values are according to centipawns: a centipawn is 1/100th of a pawn.These values are all based on chess played on an 8x8 board.
Orthodox Pieces
Pawn:100
Reason:Referance point
Knight:340
Reason: Superior to three pawns most the time,slightly inferior to the bishop.
Bishop:360
Reason:Again,superior to three pawns and slightly better than a knight.
Rook:550
Reason:A minor piece and 2 pawns are enough to compensate for a rook.Also weaker than 2 pieces by 1.5 pawns.
Queen:1050
Reason:Worth around 3 pieces and slightly inferior to 2 rooks.
Unorthodox (Fairy) Pieces
Alfil:60
Reason:The Alfil Can Only Reach 8 squares on an entire chess board.Controls a maximum of 4 squares at once.At least a pawn has a potential to promote,the alfil doesn't.
Dabbaba:90
Reason: Still pretty terrible but at least better than an alfil.Can reach 16 squares on the chess board and controls a maximum of 4 squares at once.
Alibaba:135
Reason: Pretty poor synergy and can still only reach 16 squares on an entire chess board.
Ferz:100
Reason: Slow and colorbound.
Wazir:135
Reason: Slow but can at least reach the entire board.
Man (Non-royal king):335
Reason:Has good synergy and has more freedom than minor pieces but the minor pieces are simply better at making plays in the middlegame.
Dragon Horse:200
Reason:Basically a knight without the ability to jump.Pretty bad as it requires open space when a knight doesn't.Well at least there's an excuse to trade this for 2 pawns and get an attack/activity.
Camel:200
Reason:Faster than a knight but suffers from colorboundness and the lack of space to move to on an 8x8.
Wildebeest:500
Reason:Very hard to believe it's better than a rook,so i won't lol.
General:700
Reason:Might be controversial but i don't really think this has good synergy,as both pieces are already pretty free by themselves.And the slowness problem is still not solved here.
Archbishop:925
Reason: Synergizes very well and i think i know why,the knight's main problem is that it's slow and has trouble reaching some squares and the bishop's main problem is that it's colourbound and can't reach half of the board.Together they fix each other's problems.
Chancellor:1000
Reason:The rook movement fixes the fact that the knight's movement is very slow and is very good at forking since it has 12 directions to fork with.
Amazon:1550
Reason:Very powerful and dangerous,if we think about it it's also an archbishop+rook which fixes the only weakness of the archbishop.The queen is slightly superior to rook+minor piece+pawn and i think the same applies to the amazon:the amazon is slightly superior to queen+minor piece+pawn.
These values may seem overinflated but it's all based on the fact that a minor piece is superior to 3 pawns.Now some values may not be as authentic as others as i know and understand the values of some pieces better than other pieces.
Good comment, but I have to say they deviate quite a bit from average values. Queen is not generally considered to be more than 9.5 max.
It is right of a minor piece is regarded more in value than three pawns.
Good comment, but I have to say they deviate quite a bit from average values. Queen is not generally considered to be more than 9.5 max.
It is right of a minor piece is regarded more in value than three pawns.
These values are based on the fact that a minor piece is 3.5.And minor piece+2 pawns=Rook and 3 minor pieces=A queen.2 Rooks are superior to both the queen and the 3 minor pieces but adding a pawn to the 3 pieces or a queen may give the edge to the queen or the 3 pieces.Saying a queen is more than 10.5 pawns may sound wrong but pawns are extremely helpless pieces and a queen can deal with more than 9 of them.Pawns are weak and need protection by other pieces/pawns or else they'll be picked off one by one.
ferz is WAY more than a pawn
Well,the thing is,pawns are weak and a liability if they aren't structured solidly,and the chance of them surviving until they promote is low.But the key advantage about the pawn is that it can promote unlike a ferz,yes a ferz has more freedom than a pawn but a ferz is always a ferz,a pawn can promote and is sufficient material for checkmate because it promote.King and pawn vs king may be a win for the side with the pawn or a draw while king and 2 pawns vs king is a win for the 2 pawns 90% of the time.With the ferz however,i dont think 2 ferzes are sufficient for checkmate.Another thing is that a pawn can easily be trapped by pieces as there's only one (or 2 at the starting position) square(s) to cover to trap the pawn,so pawns require constant protection to survive while the ferz can just move backwards to retreat.But the ferz can't make much of a play.İ mean how can one use a ferz effectively?While pawns can attack diagonally and move forwards,giving them a slight ability to do something.And also 2 ferz>camel makes no sense.2 ferz=3 pawns also doesn't make sense.
obviously if you care abt the endgame everything changes
rook vs bishop w/o any other pieces is a draw...
and yeah, a ferz has decent short range power and repel pieces, excellent defense
and wazirs arent as forward so theyre actually worse when alone
for proof just ask @HGMuller s computer simulation thingies
Oh wow,i played a custom position w/random people:white had a pair of opposite coloured ferzes,7 pawns and a king and black had a knight,7 pawns and a king.The results came out mixed. And the position seems equal.If one player wins a pawn the player most likely will win the game.
But since its human vs human i'm not sure what the outcome is when played perfectly.
@HGMuller Can you please simulate such position?
Ed Trice told me he has the term minor > medium and major exchange in Trice's Chess (formerly named Gothic Chess)
Archbishop for Queen, Chancellor for Archbishop and Chancellor for Queen.
Arch for Q is maybe major exchange, or the biggest of the three. #1
Ch for Q is the medium #2
Arch for Ch is #3
Usually when I give up my Queen for an opponent's Archbishop, I wreck their kingside pawn structure too, and their king is exposed. Eventually a King Hunt ensues and it is worth it.
Here's a great game where I sacrificed 3 minor pieces for 2 pawns to create a draw when I was in a bad position to begin with:
Amazon: 12
Chancellor: 8
Archbishop: 6
Dragon King: 8
Dragon Horse: 6
Centaur: 5
Nightrider: 5
Gold General: 5
Silver General: 4.5
Cannon: 5
Xiangqi Horse: 4.5
Nightrider: 5
Cannon Bishop: 4.5
Mann: 3
Camel: 2.5
Dabbaba: 2.5
Alfil: 2.5
Xiangqi Elephant: 2
Ferz: 3
Wazir: 3
An Archbishop is highly underrated. in many positions i would say it is more valuable than a queen. It is interestingly overpowered
People are really not being charitable to alfil, alibaba, and Wildebeest. Alfil is worth pretty much a FIDE pawn and noticeably more than a Shatranj pawn. Wildebeest / Gnu is both logically and experimentally better than a rook by a very noticeable margin at chess-like board densities, and is pretty much always threatening a devastating fork or smothered mate somewhere or other by virtue of existing.
The material advantage for black there would be about a quarter Pawn. Because the first-move advantage is commonly considered 1/6 of a Pawn ("3 tempi is a Pawn"), that means the setup you show is much more balanced than FIDE.