Forums

Evidently I violated the Good Sportsmanship policy for punishing those who refuse to resign.

Sort:
jetoba
Cornfed wrote:

Doing what you do is...something a jerk would do. I do hope it does indeed warrant a repremand.

Being a jerk is one of the reasons for such actions but it is not a necessary reason - and a jerk would not care about a reprimand.  There are ways a person can justify such actions and explaining how suboptimal those reasons are is one way of limiting the occurrences.

Decades ago when I was in my early 30s there was a player who trash talked about how poor my play was, about how ridiculous my moves were, how little I understood the game, etc.  I calmly made all of the preparatory moves for an attack, launched it, destroyed his position, and then returned to my high school adolescence for one game and mated him with the h pawn.  And I did it all without saying a word or showing that I was paying any attention to him.  Whether or not he deserved such a response is debatable but I'm not going to apologize for it.

Cornfed
jetoba wrote:
Cornfed wrote:

Doing what you do is...something a jerk would do. I do hope it does indeed warrant a repremand.

Being a jerk is one of the reasons for such actions but it is not a necessary reason - and a jerk would not care about a reprimand.  There are ways a person can justify such actions and explaining how suboptimal those reasons are is one way of limiting the occurrences.

Decades ago when I was in my early 30s there was a player who trash talked about how poor my play was, about how ridiculous my moves were, how little I understood the game, etc.  I calmly made all of the preparatory moves for an attack, launched it, destroyed his position, and then returned to my high school adolescence for one game and mated him with the h pawn.  And I did it all without saying a word or showing that I was paying any attention to him.  Whether or not he deserved such a response is debatable but I'm not going to apologize for it.

I think the logical counter-argument is simply that a jerk would like to continue being a jerk...and thus complain about the reprimand.

Now in blitz/bullet...the clock is part of the game and even GM's try to run out the clock against others. That is acceptable, but not in slower time controls where it is...just being a jerk.

22289d
lfPatriotGames wrote:
22289d wrote:
Laskersnephew wrote:

What the OP imagines his opponent is thinking: "Gee, this guy is really punishing me for not resigning. I'm so humiliated! I've certainly learned my lesson!"

What the opponent is actually thinking: "What's wrong with this imbecile? Doesn't he even know how to checkmate?"

 

Well, they're wrong. And one day they'll learn and have one of those moments we all have in life where a light bulb goes off and you view the past differently.

He's not wrong. And they are not wrong. There is a wide range of chess playing ability out there. Not everyone is a 1600 or 2600. There are plenty of 600s out there. Even someone rated 1200 or 1400 will justifiably have questions about the ability of the opponent. I have seen (more than once) someone struggle and fail to win a KKQ endgame. Some people do NOT have a grasp of even the basics, and will just promote more pawns because they learned it could be done and winning with more pieces is "easier". 

There is a strong likelihood that at least some of your opponent's assume you don't know how to checkmate with the pieces on the board and therefore are not surprised to see you promote pawns. 

 

I think you misunderstood that. If they don't realize the reason I promote 5 horses and dance them around the board is because I'm messing with them, and they think I'm doing that because I don't know how to checkmate - they are wrong. Absolutely 100% they are wrong. 

What I think you're saying is they are not wrong to have that strategy of not resigning. That's something different than you responded to there.

22289d

https://www.chess.com/game/live/58477871679

i like this guys style. he resigned as we entered the end game only because he lost a couple pawns. that's a show of respect. the polar opposite of refusing to resign when your opponent has a queen, rook, two knights and five pawns and you only have your king.

lfPatriotGames
22289d wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
22289d wrote:
Laskersnephew wrote:

What the OP imagines his opponent is thinking: "Gee, this guy is really punishing me for not resigning. I'm so humiliated! I've certainly learned my lesson!"

What the opponent is actually thinking: "What's wrong with this imbecile? Doesn't he even know how to checkmate?"

 

Well, they're wrong. And one day they'll learn and have one of those moments we all have in life where a light bulb goes off and you view the past differently.

He's not wrong. And they are not wrong. There is a wide range of chess playing ability out there. Not everyone is a 1600 or 2600. There are plenty of 600s out there. Even someone rated 1200 or 1400 will justifiably have questions about the ability of the opponent. I have seen (more than once) someone struggle and fail to win a KKQ endgame. Some people do NOT have a grasp of even the basics, and will just promote more pawns because they learned it could be done and winning with more pieces is "easier". 

There is a strong likelihood that at least some of your opponent's assume you don't know how to checkmate with the pieces on the board and therefore are not surprised to see you promote pawns. 

 

I think you misunderstood that. If they don't realize the reason I promote 5 horses and dance them around the board is because I'm messing with them, and they think I'm doing that because I don't know how to checkmate - they are wrong. Absolutely 100% they are wrong. 

What I think you're saying is they are not wrong to have that strategy of not resigning. That's something different than you responded to there.

But you are giving them reason to think they are right. Low rated players do this often. It's even possible some of your opponents cannot perform simple checkmates, and therefore assume you can't either. 

Either way it seems counterproductive. If you feel they are wasting your time how does you wasting time address that? Wouldn't it just make more sense to prove you know how to checkmate? If you've noticed, the pattern is promoting more pawns in an already solid winning position is something more common in low rated players. People who think they know a little bit do this because they think they are flexing. High rated players do this MUCH less often. 

22289d
lfPatriotGames wrote:
22289d wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
22289d wrote:
Laskersnephew wrote:

What the OP imagines his opponent is thinking: "Gee, this guy is really punishing me for not resigning. I'm so humiliated! I've certainly learned my lesson!"

What the opponent is actually thinking: "What's wrong with this imbecile? Doesn't he even know how to checkmate?"

 

Well, they're wrong. And one day they'll learn and have one of those moments we all have in life where a light bulb goes off and you view the past differently.

He's not wrong. And they are not wrong. There is a wide range of chess playing ability out there. Not everyone is a 1600 or 2600. There are plenty of 600s out there. Even someone rated 1200 or 1400 will justifiably have questions about the ability of the opponent. I have seen (more than once) someone struggle and fail to win a KKQ endgame. Some people do NOT have a grasp of even the basics, and will just promote more pawns because they learned it could be done and winning with more pieces is "easier". 

There is a strong likelihood that at least some of your opponent's assume you don't know how to checkmate with the pieces on the board and therefore are not surprised to see you promote pawns. 

 

I think you misunderstood that. If they don't realize the reason I promote 5 horses and dance them around the board is because I'm messing with them, and they think I'm doing that because I don't know how to checkmate - they are wrong. Absolutely 100% they are wrong. 

What I think you're saying is they are not wrong to have that strategy of not resigning. That's something different than you responded to there.

But you are giving them reason to think they are right. Low rated players do this often. It's even possible some of your opponents cannot perform simple checkmates, and therefore assume you can't either. 

Either way it seems counterproductive. If you feel they are wasting your time how does you wasting time address that? Wouldn't it just make more sense to prove you know how to checkmate? If you've noticed, the pattern is promoting more pawns in an already solid winning position is something more common in low rated players. People who think they know a little bit do this because they think they are flexing. High rated players do this MUCH less often. 

 

I understand what you're saying but they are still wrong.

They may not be wrong to think what they think. But they are still wrong.

Whether they are wrong is entirely determined by my intent. If I'm intending to mess with them and I already setup a mate in 1 and I know it, then they are wrong if they think I just can't checkmate them. 

22289d
lfPatriotGames wrote
 
If you feel they are wasting your time how does you wasting time address that? 

 

Because it's fun, it's cathartic, it feels good to mess with them. It's stops being a waste of time and turns into something I enjoy. 

lfPatriotGames

OK, good luck. 

FrancisWeed
wakuvvaku wrote:
FrancisWeed wrote:
FrancisWeed wrote:
wakuvvaku wrote:
Since they are not stalling they are within rules if they keep playing to win even if they would rather the OP checkmates them and stop wasting their time. 

So which is it? Are they playing to win or would rather lose as quickly as possible? You can't have it both ways, period. If they play to win, they should be happy if OP prolongs the game since it gives them a higher chance to win since they believe OP can mess up. If they would rather lose asap they can resign. I can't see how OP is in the wrong just based on logic.

Also the winning player cannot 'stall' by definition. Since stalling is to drag the game so the other player can't win as quickly as they should.

They can be happy if they get the stalemate. They can reasonably complain about stalling if they lose.


because they logically had no choice but to keep playing if they wanted to win. The OP on the other hand could have ended the game earlier if they wanted to win. So if they gain no advantage from the OP stalling (ie they lose) than the stalling becomes a negative after the game has finished and they are entitled to complain.

1. Again. 'Stalling' does not apply to the winning player by definition in a game where resignation exists.

2. You know what is better than having an advantage in a game where you play to win? Having a bigger advantage. Promoting pawns is simply increasing your advantage and is a lower variance winning play, and every player is entitled to it. Sure there can be a faster way to end the game but if your opponent's strategy is to wait for blunders, then it is the perfect and logical counter play to increase your advantage by so much that even one or two blunders won't matter.

 

3. It's one way or the other. Either we acknowledge the losing player has a chance or we don't. If he has a chance in the game, then the winning player is entitled do whatever he can to secure the win by reducing that chance to 0. If he doesn't have a chance then he's wasting everyone's time and everything is fair play. In fact you cant say they have a realistic chance if they watch opponent promote the first couple pawns but can't do anything about it. At that point they are simply stalling as the losing player.

Watch your tone. I'm not going to continue talking to you if you can't speak in a polite and respectful manner.

1. I believe chess.com would consider this stalling under review. I think you are taking their definition too literally and that they would consider it stalling in spirit.

2. If your next move can deliver checkmate there is no move that will give you a bigger advantage.

3. If the player in the weaker position can move they have a chance to win because their opponent could lose (lost connection etc) or resign on their next move. If their opponent can deliver checkmate on their move but purposely does not do so they are stalling (or whatever term you prefer. Either way it is unsporting.)

JogoReal

Doing sub-promotions is a right every player has. I saw people drawing and losing the game after sub-promoting. That's why chess is fun.

Cornfed

Look, someone being a 'jerk', is often just not able to see that they are being a 'jerk'...any further discussion on this is pointless.

mpaetz

     First you decide that people who don't resign quickly enough to suit you need to be "taught a lesson", so you deliberately waste a lot of their (and your) time and effort needlessly dragging out games. When you get spanked for time-wasting you fume about how unfair it is.

     Hopefully both of you have learned a lesson.

Mike_Kalish

"When someone doesn't resign a hopelessly lost position, I like to mess with them by promoting everything (usually to horses) and making a bunch of joke moves before finally delivering checkmate."

If this was the only thing I knew about you....which I guess it pretty much is.... my impression of you would be that you are a spoiled, self-centered egotist.

If I did this (what you do) in a chess game, I'd go to bed that night feeling like a total jerk, and I'd be asking both God and my opponent for forgiveness the next day. 

 

GlutesChess
mpaetz wrote:

     First you decide that people who don't resign quickly enough to suit you need to be "taught a lesson", so you deliberately waste a lot of their (and your) time and effort needlessly dragging out games. When you get spanked for time-wasting you fume about how unfair it is.

     Hopefully both of you have learned a lesson.

How you gonna get mad at the second person dragging out games and not the first person needlessly dragging out games? Ironic. They're both bad sportsman

mpaetz
GlutesChess wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

     First you decide that people who don't resign quickly enough to suit you need to be "taught a lesson", so you deliberately waste a lot of their (and your) time and effort needlessly dragging out games. When you get spanked for time-wasting you fume about how unfair it is.

     Hopefully both of you have learned a lesson.

How you gonna get mad at the second person dragging out games and not the first person needlessly dragging out games? Ironic. They're both bad sportsman

    Yes they are. I haven't bothered to look at the games involved, but there a lot of chess "experts", videos, lessons, etc that tell low rated players to never resign. Some players believe they can learn from the way a stronger player goes about cashing in a winning position. Maybe others are wasting time out of spite, but doing the same thing you are complaining about and then whining about being taken to task for it is arrogant, childish, and stupid. Then he starts a forum to get others to sympathize with him. What a jerk.

654Psyfox
22289d wrote:

When someone doesn't resign a hopelessly lost position, I like to mess with them by promoting everything (usually to horses) and making a bunch of joke moves before finally delivering checkmate. They are wasting time and dragging out the game by not resigning so I do the same to them.

I don't ever delay games or stall in any other situation. So I have to assume my doing that caused people to report me and made me get the message below. I'm wondering if this is something that is actually against the rules and they would suspend or ban my account for, if I keep doing it.

 

Dear 22289d

 

We’ve been receiving reports of stalling and disconnecting in your games. We want to remind you that this does violate our Good Sportsmanship policy.

We would ask you resign or play on in the future in order to make Chess.com a more friendly place to play!

Thank you,
Chess.com Support
[email protected]

 

 

 

Everyone has different reasons for not resigning, but it usually isn't to intentionally delay.

Optimissed


Stalling means not making moves. It doesn't mean anything else and if a person makes moves when they're losing, then you have to make moves to beat them. You can make no criticism of people who make moves. If you choose to make bad moves rather than win, again it's their choice if they play on or resign. It's of no consequence if they aren't stalling, which means not making moves and not resigning when they are hopelessly lost.

awesome1184

Here, I'll fix your title.

"Evidently, I violated the Good Sportsmanship Policy by punishing those who want to learn from their mistakes."

All better!

Max_B

My Opinion is that the game ends with checkmate.  If I'm in a loosing position, thats because I made some mistakes, maybe my opponent will.  Also by playing, I think I can learn more from them.  I dont think its bad sportsmanship it they are still playing, but to just let the game time out, that's lame.

RonaldJosephCote

   post 70....."Because it's fun, it's cathartic, it feels good to mess with them. It's stops being a waste of time and turns into something I enjoy".             Joy.......another Trump. frustrated