Forums

Help me analyze this pawn ending

Sort:
Robert_New_Alekhine
logozar wrote:
 
 
There is a pawn race and I need help analyzing the computer is not much help

Start at the starting position but the critical idea is black to get his king to c4 and it seems winning - if played right. 
Super complicated and hard to analyze, but please help!

Why do you need to play Qxg1, trading queens? White should keep queens on the board, as the resulting pawn race is lost. 

Robert_New_Alekhine

Interesting if h5 before playing the Ke6-Kd5-Kc4 plan would be an improvement....everything depends on whether white has enough time to create a passed pawn.

Black wins here.

LESSON: ALWAYS IMPROVE YOUR POSITION TO THE UTMOST BEFORE MAKING THE FINAL BREAKTHROUGH.

If white goes to take the pawns on the queenside with Ke5 after Kxc3 and Kxe4, then after Kc4 Kd6 Kxd4 Kb6...I have not analyzed it. It may be drawn. 

TwoMove

Yes, I was looking at 34...h5, which I think wins too a temp down on your line, and I think 34...h6 transposes. In the 32...ke6 line that is.

LogoCzar
Robert_New_Alekhine wrote:

Interesting if h5 before playing the Ke6-Kd5-Kc4 plan would be an improvement....everything depends on whether white has enough time to create a passed pawn.

Black wins here.

LESSON: ALWAYS IMPROVE YOUR POSITION TO THE UTMOST BEFORE MAKING THE FINAL BREAKTHROUGH.

If white goes to take the pawns on the queenside with Ke5 after Kxc3 and Kxe4, then after Kc4 Kd6 Kxd4 Kb6...I have not analyzed it. It may be drawn. 

Here is the line you gave:

 
Please note: I would not go after the kingside pawns with 38.Kf5. I would play 38.Ke5 and with accurate play it seems to be a draw, but black is the one who could slip.
 
Thanks for the analysis!



LogoCzar

Another part of the endgame to analyze, though earlier in the game:



LogoCzar
Robert_New_Alekhine wrote:
logozar wrote:
 
 
There is a pawn race and I need help analyzing the computer is not much help

Start at the starting position but the critical idea is black to get his king to c4 and it seems winning - if played right. 
Super complicated and hard to analyze, but please help!

Why do you need to play Qxg1, trading queens? White should keep queens on the board, as the resulting pawn race is lost. 

I know. That is why I said ?? and 'with a perpetual' with something else. (the alternitive line)

Keep in mind this was not played... this was a sideline I was analyzing.

peepchuy

48. Qg1 is a losing move. Instead, Qb7 followed by Qh7 wins a pawn. It is a draw, but without losing chances for white. I

peepchuy

Thanks for sharing this game. The position after 41... Kh2 is drawn. The only mistake after that is 48. Qg1. I used the Lomonosov tablebases.

LogoCzar

I posted in the sidelines what was played and which was analysis... Qg1 was not played.

Your welcome, glad you liked the game.

chesskingdreamer

Why even play a6? White needs Kb7-a7-b6-b5, which is 4 moves. In the other case white only needs Kb6-a6-b5, which is 3 moves.

 

LESSON LEARNED: Don't calculate far, calculate logically. For example: Pushing h5 before starting action. Not pushing a6. You are limiting yourself by making deep calculation errors which are illogical. Kids are SUPPOSED to be good at calculation, but these mistakes seriously set you back. Also, it doesn't matter how far you calculate if it's all wrong.

thepasswordischess

This position is useless, you won't learn

aalv
thepasswordischess wrote:

This position is useless, you won't learn

Actually, there is a lot to learn from it

LogoCzar
aalv wrote:
thepasswordischess wrote:

This position is useless, you won't learn

Actually, there is a lot to learn from it

Agreed, thanks

LogoCzar

Ah, so a3/a6 is not just a tempo-counting move, it is a weakening move. Moving the king back without it was likely better

LogoCzar
HueyWilliams wrote:

Could've sworn that's what the IM was saying (although his aphoristic approach--"Don't calculate far, calculate logically"--isn't exactly helpful).

I'm not really sure he realized I was white, and this was an analysis line because all of his advice applied to black for a line that was analyzed but not played.

Still appreciated though

thepasswordischess

Like I said, logozar won't get better from this

thepasswordischess

Ok, just one basic pawn endgame won't magically turn this prodigy into a grandmaster. I should know because I'm his mentor, despite being younger than him and able to beat him :p Hopefully Logozar will improve dramatically and a pawn endgame like this is nonsense!

LogoCzar
thepasswordischess wrote:

Ok, just one basic pawn endgame won't magically turn this prodigy into a grandmaster. I should know because I'm his mentor, despite being younger than him and able to beat him :p Hopefully Logozar will improve dramatically and a pawn endgame like this is nonsense!

Hey you are not my mentor. Also, you beat me when we were playing blitz on a day where I told you it was for fun because I was really tired (I told you in advance) because I was falling fase because of it. You might be able to beat me when I am not exhausted/at blitz, we don't know yet. During the summer, I would be happy to challenge you. During the summer (I told myself no more blitz till summer except with my coach, 1 friend (German_MagnusCarlsen) and in real life

LogoCzar
thepasswordischess wrote:

Ok, just one basic pawn endgame won't magically turn this prodigy into a grandmaster. I should know because I'm his mentor, despite being younger than him and able to beat him :p Hopefully Logozar will improve dramatically and a pawn endgame like this is nonsense!

Well I know it wont make me a GM, but it helped me understand the nature of pawn endgames better as well as game analysis - this is a potential endgame from a game I played OTB!

Ajedrez-Cafetero

I think that 26.Nb3 would be the key. 26. d4 looks bad for white. This allowed to black plays 27... Ne4 which force you to change the knights with a lost pawn endgame.