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How To Win Rook vs Knight Endings? How Was This Draw Expertly Held?

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KeSetoKaiba

I played a rapid game recently and I got to this ending (starting about move 59). Here is what I knew going into this game:

A) Rook v.s. Knight clearly favors the Rook side because a Rook can easily checkmate with the help of the King, but a Lone Knight can't checkmate (although I know that two Knights can with an opponent pawn can mate, like in the Troitsky Line).

B) I know that the Rook side usually wins in practical play, but that the defending side can force fortress draws in certain positions via zugswang.

C) I think this ending is a draw with a computer precise defense, but in practical play this ending is often won by the side with the Rook separating the Knight and King and eventually winning the Knight by threatening checkmate.

In short, was there anything I could have tried differently to win AFTER move 59 (I know I missed several heart-breaking chances before then, where I could have won)? I spent over half of my clock time trying to win this ending to no success; eventually with only seconds left on the clock, I walked into a fork and declared a draw by the 50 move rule (either way would have been a draw). What should I have tried to win this ending, or was my opponent's defense simply an impasse for me to win?

KeSetoKaiba

 

KeSetoKaiba

Bump 

This isn't a troll post xD, I just want to know if anyone can add any advice regarding this ending - however great or small that advice may be.

Laskersnephew

I look this over with my own eyes and then with Stockfish, and I don't see anywhere you missed winning chances. Now I went through the game rather quickly with Stockfish, but it's such a simplified position that I doubt we missed much. 

JamesColeman

I haven’t looked in detail but rook vs Knight is usually a straightforward defence unless there’s some other factor (for example Knight far from its own king)

 

Its not like rook and bishop vs rook where the rook and bishop will often win a drawn position even at a high rating level. 

 

That being said, 78...Rc5 looks like it would have separated the king and Knight far enough that it should be winning, although I haven’t checked with a tablebase.

stiggling

R vs N is an easy draw except for particular positions when the knight and king are extremely poorly placed. For example here it's white to move but white loses.

 

 

R vs B is an easy draw too, so long as you don't get caught in the wrong corner

 

 

As for R+N vs N, I thought that was a mindlessly easy draw too until I blundered into this in a blitz game... I probably found just about the only way to lose...

 

 

And of course R+B vs R is also a draw, but when the weaker side's king is pressed against the edge it can be a win, although even then against best defense it takes about 20 moves to mate.

KeSetoKaiba

Thanks for the thoughts everyone, I guess this ending is simply an easier draw to hold than I thought. I also found the Bishop and Rook related endgames interesting; it is probably about just as likely that the other minor piece would reach this endgame too, so it makes sense that I should learn this possibility as well.

Michael-Holm

Part of the advantage of having the better piece is that you can often trade your better piece for your opponent's worse piece in a favorable way. In chess it's not always important what exchanges you make. What is important is what's left on the board. 43. Rxe4 would have simplified into an easily winning King and pawn endgame because White can't prevent you from coming up to take the e-pawn followed by taking the Kingside pawns.

 

Here's a vote chess game where I explained to my teammates that trading our Rook for our opponent's Bishop would lead to an easily winning King and pawn endgame:

 

 

KeSetoKaiba

Vicariously-I (post #8), thanks advice about exchanging the "better" piece for a winning position. It makes sense. Ironically, I had the chance to do so in my posted game. I wanted feedback on only the Rook vs. minor piece ending, but I was kicking myself in my post game analysis when I realized the simple 43...Rxe4! where I exchange this Rook for the Knight into a won endgame for me, in a similar fashion to that vote chess game shown. 

Legally, I can't help you with your vote chess game - so I won't mention the obvious fact that a potential 48...gxh4 49.g5!? hxg5?? is stalemate wink.png I like this position in the game though very cool; 48...gxh4 and you can set conditional moves for h4-h3-h2-h1=Q# or even h1=R# happy.png Elegantly, it is easy to see how Black wins by a single tempo. Ideally, your opponent will resign before then though.

My game was not as elegant, but I'll try to remember the potential of trading off the pieces for a won endgame. Thanks for the advice and the posted position. 

 

Michael-Holm
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Vicariously-I (post #8), thanks advice about exchanging the "better" piece for a winning position. It makes sense. Ironically, I had the chance to do so in my posted game. I wanted feedback on only the Rook vs. minor piece ending, but I was kicking myself in my post game analysis when I realized the simple 43...Rxe4! where I exchange this Rook for the Knight into a won endgame for me, in a similar fashion to that vote chess game shown. 

Legally, I can't help you with your vote chess game - so I won't mention the obvious fact that a potential 48...gxh4 49.g5!? hxg5?? is stalemate  I like this position in the game though very cool; 48...gxh4 and you can set conditional moves for h4-h3-h2-h1=Q# or even h1=R#  Elegantly, it is easy to see how Black wins by a single tempo. Ideally, your opponent will resign before then though.

My game was not as elegant, but I'll try to remember the potential of trading off the pieces for a won endgame. Thanks for the advice and the posted position. 

 

Yeah you're welcome. I didn't realize you were mainly wondering how to win once all of the pawns were exchanged. I should have read your post more carefully. Once all of the pawns are gone it's not too difficult to hold for the defending side. I had the Rook in this endgame once and I wasn't able to win. 

As for the game I posted, yes we are definitely aware of the stalemate possibility and that we can allow our opponents to keep their pawn in order to avoid it. Normally I wouldn't share a game in progress but I don't think it's a big deal in this case considering it's a vote chess game and we are just playing out the moves at this point.

thegreatchessplayerrzz

on move 36 you had a very easy win. I simply do not understand how black did not easily win. The knight side had an extra pawn, but there were pawns on both sides, and with rook vs knight with pawns on both sides it is basically always winning, even if the knight side has an extra pawn. Without the b pawns this position would be draw, but with the b pawns it is a very easy win because white cannot defend on both sides of the board. The way to win is to not trade all the pawns off and bring in your king to attack the knight. For example, if the knight is guarding a pawn attack the knight with your king. Now you can take the pawn because it is hanging. Also look for opportunities to sacrifice the rook for the knight. Remember: rook vs knight is almost always a win if there are pawns on the board. Simply do not trade all the pawns off.

I easily won it against the computer:

Kaeldorn

Beside specific starting positions and odd blunders, Rook vs Knight is indeed a draw, rather easy to defend. Had it once OTB and my opponent tried hard to win for a dozen moves before to accept the evidence it was a draw and I was not going to play any silly blunder with lots of time on the clock.