yes it is a very good book. I recommend this to my students
Silman's Complete Endgame Course - any good?
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thoughtson64 wrote:
defenestrated wrote:
The point of learning the B+K endgame is to gain a greater understanding of the knights and bishops game mechanics and how they interact, not so that you have the knowledge just in case it actually occurs. That Silman doesn't understand that angle to it is surprising and disapointing.
There are "HUNDREDS" of resources online to learn all the endgames, so why buy the book at all........
That reasoning has nothing to do with learning the end game which is the purpose of the book.
It has everything to do with the endgame and creating a checkmate.
And to quote Silman from the preface of his book as to it's purpose:
"This book is designed to make players who are disgusted with endgame study feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it assures you that you can become an accomplished endgame player with a little effort."
So, it will make you feel all good warm fuzzy feelings about your endgame skills. If you're "disgusted with endgame study" (boo-hoo chess is too hard
) then yes, pick up Silman's book. Otherwise you cannot go wrong with Dvoretsky. I'm sure plenty of people are very happy with Silman's book, but I was not.
as much as i like the silman book... after more than 40k internet games, i finally had to pull off a knight+bishop checkmate for the first time in a funzies unrated correspondence game here.
so i can't say that it's "useless" anymore :/
of course, since i never had learned any of the techniques, i had to look it up (with my opponent's knowledge and consent, even though not required as per the rules), and pulled it off after a few days.
not sure if it was worth it, or if i should feel proud of myself for finally pulling this off in some manner :P
@topic - it's a good and very practical book, definitely a good first resource.
defenestrated wrote:
thoughtson64 wrote:
defenestrated wrote:
The point of learning the B+K endgame is to gain a greater understanding of the knights and bishops game mechanics and how they interact, not so that you have the knowledge just in case it actually occurs. That Silman doesn't understand that angle to it is surprising and disapointing.
There are "HUNDREDS" of resources online to learn all the endgames, so why buy the book at all........
That reasoning has nothing to do with learning the end game which is the purpose of the book.
It has everything to do with the endgame and creating a checkmate.
And to quote Silman from the preface of his book as to it's purpose:
"This book is designed to make players who are disgusted with endgame study feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it assures you that you can become an accomplished endgame player with a little effort."
So, it will make you feel all good warm fuzzy feelings about your endgame skills. If you're "disgusted with endgame study" (boo-hoo chess is too hard) then yes, pick up Silman's book. Otherwise you cannot go wrong with Dvoretsky. I'm sure plenty of people are very happy with Silman's book, but I was not.
The fact the he offer test and explanations in his book is a great tool.
He is big on key ideas and know the key idea and therefore finding the best move, this kind of insight is not easily found on the internet.
All in all, B+K checkmate is a very small part of endgame skills, (arguably the least necessary) he deliberately left it out because he thought it’s a waste of time. I don't know about you, but I respect Mr. Silman's opinion more than any other teacher/writer, he it one of the best (if the not the best) chess writers around.
"So, it will make you feel all good warm fuzzy feelings about your endgame skills. If you're "disgusted with endgame study" (boo-hoo chess is too hard ) then yes, pick up Silman's book."
How does this correspond to Silman's quote? This is a very broad book that will make you more prepared during endgames, how is that a bad thing?
Silman's book is excellent as a first endgame book (it's actually enough for a lifetime at club level). Dvoretsky's manual is much more advanced and maybe too challenging for most people as a first step into the endgame world.
There is an unfortunate tendency among chess players to look for the "best books" and not for the "books which are best for them". I know of many 1400 rated players which own either dvoretsky's manual or even more detailed engame tomes, and they are absolutely terrible endgame players. That's because they never actually managed to read such a difficult book due to the lack of time/motivation/both. They would probably have learnt a lot more from a simple, user friendly guide such as silman's.
To sum it up: if you have enough time and motivation to spend some time to work hard every single day for several months on your endgames and your goal is to become a master/extremely specialized endgame player, Dvoretsky is your choice; silman is not enough to reach your goal.
If you just want a solid endgame foundation to play the final part of the game reasonably well (and still better than most club players), and you have limited study time, then don't fool yourself and buy silman's book; that's what you really need.
defenestrated wrote:
thoughtson64 wrote:
defenestrated wrote:
The point of learning the B+K endgame is to gain a greater understanding of the knights and bishops game mechanics and how they interact, not so that you have the knowledge just in case it actually occurs. That Silman doesn't understand that angle to it is surprising and disapointing.
There are "HUNDREDS" of resources online to learn all the endgames, so why buy the book at all........
That reasoning has nothing to do with learning the end game which is the purpose of the book.
It has everything to do with the endgame and creating a checkmate.
And to quote Silman from the preface of his book as to it's purpose:
"This book is designed to make players who are disgusted with endgame study feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it assures you that you can become an accomplished endgame player with a little effort."
So, it will make you feel all good warm fuzzy feelings about your endgame skills. If you're "disgusted with endgame study" (boo-hoo chess is too hard) then yes, pick up Silman's book. Otherwise you cannot go wrong with Dvoretsky. I'm sure plenty of people are very happy with Silman's book, but I was not.
No the reasoning you used for why Silman should have included it had nothing to do with the end game but so people could learn the knight and bishop piece combination better. That reasoning has nothing to do with the purpose of the end game book which is to teach end games not how to use piece combinations better.
Jul 18, 2013
0
#28
Silman's books are easy to follow. He tells you what is going on and why. I have found both his Endgame Course and his How to Reassess Your Chess both excellent. I wish he would come out with a book on Openings.
I know right?!
Based on your online chess rating of 1400 I would wholeheardtly recommend it. It'd also recommend to go ahead and study all of it and not just what applies to your rating. It's very easy to go through, the things are presented clearly and in increasing difficulty building on top of previously introduced concepts. Studying it for a few weeks or so every day will get you more or less through it and will make you familiar with most of the important end game concepts. I have both Dvoretskys (which I am slowly starting to work on) and Silmans, approaching the manual is certainetly much less of a daunting task now that I've studying Silmans book first. It won't make you completely confident in the ending (for that you'd need some serious experience I'd imagine) but it's a great book and very easy to study.
The book is excellent
B-Lamberth wrote:
My endgame could really need some attantion , so I am looking for a good endgame book.
Good reads:
Zonosko Borovosky's How to Play Chess Endings:
http://www.amazon.com/Play-Chess-Endings-Eugene-Znosko-Borovsky/dp/0486211703/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374186308&sr=1-4
A small old book only 288 pages but it's timeless he emphasis's understanding of chess in his books not memorization technique, logical thinking in the endgame,principles, developing a sounds plan of action no matter what the situation or what the requirements of the position are. It's $8 dirt cheap. In descriptive notation.
The book is skimpy on rook endings (important) but you can find other sources for that.
Basic Chess Endings by Reuben Fine:
http://www.amazon.ca/Basic-Chess-Endings-Reuben-Fine/dp/0812934938/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374187073&sr=1-2&keywords=basic+chess+endings
The Daddy of all Chess Endgame books behind Laszlo Polgars great stuff!
Comprehensive Chess Endings by Yuri Averbakh Volumes 1-5:
http://www.amazon.ca/Comprehensive-Chess-Endings-Bishop-Knight/dp/4871875032/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374187540&sr=1-1&keywords=averbakh
These Russian books were tough to get because they were scarce for many years this series is one of the best ever written the analysis in them still holds up even 30 years later I like them.
Practical Rook Endings by Edmar Mednis
http://www.amazon.ca/Practical-Rook-Endings-Edmar-Mednis/dp/0931462169/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374187906&sr=1-2&keywords=practical+rook+endings
Small book only 70 pages and very,very plain production wise but I don't think there's a better book that explains rook and pawn endings than this. I still have my origional copy and have kept it for 25 over years so that should tell you how much I value it!
From the Middle Game to the Endgame by Edmar Mednis:
http://www.amazon.com/From-Middlegame-Endgame-Edmar-Mednis/dp/1857440609/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374188130&sr=8-1&keywords=from+the+middle+game+to+the+endgame
Great book on steering the middle game to the endgame can easily gain hundreds of points from mastering what he teaches.
thoughtson64 wrote:
defenestrated wrote:
thoughtson64 wrote:
defenestrated wrote:
The point of learning the B+K endgame is to gain a greater understanding of the knights and bishops game mechanics and how they interact, not so that you have the knowledge just in case it actually occurs. That Silman doesn't understand that angle to it is surprising and disapointing.
There are "HUNDREDS" of resources online to learn all the endgames, so why buy the book at all........
That reasoning has nothing to do with learning the end game which is the purpose of the book.
It has everything to do with the endgame and creating a checkmate.
And to quote Silman from the preface of his book as to it's purpose:
"This book is designed to make players who are disgusted with endgame study feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it assures you that you can become an accomplished endgame player with a little effort."
So, it will make you feel all good warm fuzzy feelings about your endgame skills. If you're "disgusted with endgame study" (boo-hoo chess is too hard) then yes, pick up Silman's book. Otherwise you cannot go wrong with Dvoretsky. I'm sure plenty of people are very happy with Silman's book, but I was not.
No the reasoning you used for why Silman should have included it had nothing to do with the end game but so people could learn the knight and bishop piece combination better. That reasoning has nothing to do with the purpose of the end game book which is to teach end games not how to use piece combinations better.
woosh! right over your head.
The book is hardly a complete endgame course if you leave out one of the most famous endgames in the chess universe, now is it? It's written to make chess newbs feel good about chess, that is it's primary purpose, if you get better at chess that's a secondary concern... Not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but it's worth pointing out.
It didn't go over my head, you just won't admit that your reasoning for why the bishop and knight mate should have been included in the book is not related to endgame play which is the point of the book. You can argue with the book title using the word complete all you want but it has no relevance to how well the book is concerning teaching the material that is given. I also beg to differ on the bishop and knight being one of the most famous endgames in the chess universe, it is rarely seen end game most will never encounter in a game. That's just being dramatic to claim such, the two bishop mate is far more common and most end games are won with a major piece in play. Silman's book teaches the basic, fundamental end games that commonly arise in games and the principles for navigating end games in general in various forms. Excluding a rare double minor piece mate sequence out of the end game material is hardly noteworthy of whether someone would learn a lot from the book or not. Many say they do. Your initial reasoning which I originally was pointing out made no sense in relation to the content and purpose of the book. If you didn't like that it was excluded, fine, but saying it should have been added primarily for a purpose outside of the general scope of the book's purpose is illogical. That's all I was intending to point out to you and other's interested in the book. See you.
Jul 18, 2013
0
#35
Silman's Complete Endgame Course is unique (as far as I know) in that he takes into account what is worth your time to study. B+N checkmate is worth your time to study, but not before you've mastered the Lucena and Philidor positions. Also not before you've mastered a load of other far more useful endgame techniques. You will see a bigger improvement in your chess by learning about opposition than by learning about the rook-pawn version of Lucena, even though both are very good things to know. Hence, he puts the more fundamental concepts first to bring you along in the right order, and at a pace reasonable for your current level.
He teaches things clearly, and helps you know what to learn in what order. It's the only endgame book I own, and I consider endgames to be one of the stronger parts of my game, based on my own OTB tournament experiences (Class B player).
Someone earlier said that it's sufficient until you reach class-A. I'll come back when I get there and tell you my thoughts, but at class-B and >2000 Online rating, it's more than enough for me.
yes
B-Lamberth wrote:
My endgame could really need some attantion , so I am looking for a good endgame book.
Has anyone any experience with Silman's Complete Endgame Course?
You've a Diamond membership, entitling you to this site's:
- chess mentor online training
- computer analysis of games
- and (though I dislike this approach myself) video lessons
The only value in an endgame book to study as I see it, would be for rote study of the basics. That said, improve your endgame and you'll see your middle game become sharper (as you'll know much better how to handle ambiguous situations so they end up with the endgame in your favour).
sftac
ps. For C to A class players, I recommend Pandolfini's endgame course: http://www.amazon.com/Pandolfinis-Endgame-Course-Concepts-Explained/dp/0671656880/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374206922&sr=1-1&keywords=pandolfini+chess+endgame
It just came to my attention that Silman does not cover many material imbalances that could easily arise. There is no discussion of knight versues bishop, which seems odd for Silman. He also artifcially split up the Philidor position into the main defensive idea and the "Philidor gone bad" attacking the pawn from the rear. I guess if I didn't have Dvoretsky to fall back upon I might not like Silman's book very much.
B-Lamberth wrote:
And what about:
Understanding Chess Endgames by John Nunn?
Excellent choice. There is an endgame study on each page, and they are concise enough to learn one in an evening. It even covers KBNvK and KQvKR. I suggest you visit Amazon and use the 'Look Inside' feature to see which book you fancy.
JFK-Ramsey wrote:
Silman's books are easy to follow. ... I wish he would come out with a book on Openings.
"The Complete Book of Chess Strategy: Grandmaster Techniques from A to Z"
He doesn't go into too much depth but he briefly covers a number of openings. Overall, I think it's a pretty good book. Not very advanced, though.
[edit: I have both Silman's and Dvoretsky's books and like them both. At least one of the examples in Silmans book could have been done better.
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/endgames/bishop-endgame-analysis
I have the book. Love it!