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Realistic goals for adults?

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play4fun64

If adults can earn a doctorate degree late in life, I don't see a reason they can't reach 2000 chess.com ratings. Like a doctorate, the adults must spend much study, time and effort.

hikaripotchama
blueemu wrote:

@hikaripotchama

- Did you get any use out of that Space / Time / Force lecture that I linked you to?

First of all, thank you for the great article. I only read the first half of the article roughly, but it was an eye-opener that it is better not to exchange pieces as much as possible when you are at a disadvantage. However, there were many points that were difficult for me at the moment. Can I learn this knowledge in an easy-to-understand way in Chess.com lessons?

blueemu
hikaripotchama wrote:
blueemu wrote:

@hikaripotchama

- Did you get any use out of that Space / Time / Force lecture that I linked you to?

First of all, thank you for the great article. I only read the first half of the article roughly, but it was an eye-opener that it is better not to exchange pieces as much as possible when you are at a disadvantage. However, there were many points that were difficult for me at the moment. Can I learn this knowledge in an easy-to-understand way in Chess.com lessons?

I've never taken chess.com lessons, so I don't know.

If you didn't read post # 12 then you missed the most important part.

Artifexlux

There's a video by chessbaseindia where a prison inmate goes toe-to-toe with a IM after 2 years of learning the game. The instructor said there was another inmate of similar strength in the group (link below).
I think in general, one of the fastest ways to gate yourself in Chess or Go is to create elaborate and sophisticated explanations of how the game works, that completely fall apart with one counter example or exception. It's usually better just experience what it is, and embrace that you'll never fully understand what's going on. 
https://youtu.be/ca00C6yV6eE?si=zm-JKhJ0AiZxS-qp

hikaripotchama

how many games should you play a day? I'd really like to play 2-3 games of rapid every day for 30 minutes, but I have work and housework. Lack of time is the biggest barrier to improvement for adults.

On days when I have work, I can only play one game at most, and even on holidays, three games is the limit...

IeJoker

#1 you can get past 2000 without any coaching

nklristic
hikaripotchama wrote:

how many games should you play a day? I'd really like to play 2-3 games of rapid every day for 30 minutes, but I have work and housework. Lack of time is the biggest barrier to improvement for adults.

On days when I have work, I can only play one game at most, and even on holidays, three games is the limit...

Quality over quantity when it comes to improvement. It is more important to try to gain everything you can from a single game, than to spam games and you play the next one right away. That is why 1 longer game that you analise in depth is better than 20 bullet games when it comes to improvement.

Sure, a talented fanatic who does both for 12 hours a day will possibly have even greater results, but you can play 1 game, or even less per day and still improve, if you analise it and always learn something from it.

hikaripotchama
nklristic wrote:
hikaripotchama wrote:

how many games should you play a day? I'd really like to play 2-3 games of rapid every day for 30 minutes, but I have work and housework. Lack of time is the biggest barrier to improvement for adults.

On days when I have work, I can only play one game at most, and even on holidays, three games is the limit...

Quality over quantity when it comes to improvement. It is more important to try to gain everything you can from a single game, than to spam games and you play the next one right away. That is why 1 longer game that you analise in depth is better than 20 bullet games when it comes to improvement.

Sure, a talented fanatic who does both for 12 hours a day will possibly have even greater results, but you can play 1 game, or even less per day and still improve, if you analise it and always learn something from it.

Hi, thanks for the details. Honestly, would it be more efficient to learn from a good player in person rather than using the review function on this site?

Online is often stressful because of the ELO system, smurfs, and cheaters.
If I don't need online, I'll consider switching to OTB completely.

nklristic
hikaripotchama wrote:
nklristic wrote:
hikaripotchama wrote:

how many games should you play a day? I'd really like to play 2-3 games of rapid every day for 30 minutes, but I have work and housework. Lack of time is the biggest barrier to improvement for adults.

On days when I have work, I can only play one game at most, and even on holidays, three games is the limit...

Quality over quantity when it comes to improvement. It is more important to try to gain everything you can from a single game, than to spam games and you play the next one right away. That is why 1 longer game that you analise in depth is better than 20 bullet games when it comes to improvement.

Sure, a talented fanatic who does both for 12 hours a day will possibly have even greater results, but you can play 1 game, or even less per day and still improve, if you analise it and always learn something from it.

Hi, thanks for the details. Honestly, would it be more efficient to learn from a good player in person rather than using the review function on this site?

Online is often stressful because of the ELO system, smurfs, and cheaters.
If I don't need online, I'll consider switching to OTB completely.

I understand that these things are not great, but in my experience they have far less relevance for your improvement than you realize. I face a cheater maybe once in 20 or 30 games, and even such a game can still be instructive to some extent, when it comes to learning something new.

And when I say analysis, I do not mean review function of this site. Clicking on it will not make you any better by itself. Making an effort to figure stuff out will. I am not saying that using the engine for analysis is bad, but it is important how do you use it, if you do.

The most important thing is to be truthful to yourself if you really understand something or you are just following engine line without understanding. And you don't even have to understand everything from the game. If you learn one or 2 things, it is still some progress.

Not every +0.5 shift in evaluation has to be understood. You could try to understand it, but make sure to understand every blunder, and try to see why the evaluation went from +0.0 to -1.8 for some move for instance. Sometimes it will lose some material and then it is relatively easy to figure out, but sometimes it will be something else. Perhaps you have allowed some weakness in your structure that is hard to defend, perhaps you made your opponent's pieces a lot better and your king is kind of weak. Or perhaps you had some activity in a pawn down position but you allowed the opponent to nullify your compensation.

When you analyze, try to be creative, try out some move that you thought about during the game. Maybe it was the best move, or maybe it was a blunder. If so, see what was wrong with it. In the end, if some line looks just insane for your level, leave it alone and don't be too frustrated, there are always things where engine is not that helpful, even grandmasters do not play like machines and will choose different moves from time to time.

As for OTB, online games have the advantage because there is always someone you can play chess with.

Apart from that issue, if you can regularly play chess in person, that can be great as well, so go for it, why not.

AngusByers
lexagain wrote:

I just turned 16 in July, and became an adult, and started playing chess about the same time, does this mean I can not get better?

No, in fact, some of the greatest chess players in history didn't start playing until older than you. So, while current players all started younger, you could be the one the shows that's not necessary. And even if you're not the one, so what? If you like the game, then just play it. In the end, that's all that really matters.

hikaripotchama
AngusByers wrote:
lexagain wrote:

I just turned 16 in July, and became an adult, and started playing chess about the same time, does this mean I can not get better?

No, in fact, some of the greatest chess players in history didn't start playing until older than you. So, while current players all started younger, you could be the one the shows that's not necessary. And even if you're not the one, so what? If you like the game, then just play it. In the end, that's all that really matters.

However, if your skill level is too low, you may not enjoy it as much as someone who is more skilled.

AngusByers
hikaripotchama wrote:
AngusByers wrote:
lexagain wrote:

I just turned 16 in July, and became an adult, and started playing chess about the same time, does this mean I can not get better?

No, in fact, some of the greatest chess players in history didn't start playing until older than you. So, while current players all started younger, you could be the one the shows that's not necessary. And even if you're not the one, so what? If you like the game, then just play it. In the end, that's all that really matters.

However, if your skill level is too low, you may not enjoy it as much as someone who is more skilled.

How can someone compare how much they enjoy something against how much someone they don't know enjoys it? The better player may enjoy it more, or they may enjoy it less, or they may enjoy it the same. In the end, what other's think or enjoy doesn't matter, either you like chess, or your don't.

nklristic
hikaripotchama wrote:
AngusByers wrote:
lexagain wrote:

I just turned 16 in July, and became an adult, and started playing chess about the same time, does this mean I can not get better?

No, in fact, some of the greatest chess players in history didn't start playing until older than you. So, while current players all started younger, you could be the one the shows that's not necessary. And even if you're not the one, so what? If you like the game, then just play it. In the end, that's all that really matters.

However, if your skill level is too low, you may not enjoy it as much as someone who is more skilled.

I would say this is subjective. I had some exciting games I enjoyed when I was around 1 100, 1 200 and there were some blunders on the board. Win or lose, I enjoyed some games back then. I enjoy my games now as well, perhaps in another way, but in any case, for me at least, my playing strength doesn't affect how much I like or don't like playing.

TheMidnightExpress12

hmmm very interesting. WANI. E. Idneed. alr im leaving now

Jahtreezy
hikaripotchama wrote:

how many games should you play a day? I'd really like to play 2-3 games of rapid every day for 30 minutes, but I have work and housework. Lack of time is the biggest barrier to improvement for adults.

Between work, chores, and if you have kids (and the sleep deprivation that comes from balancing all these), I think you are right. It's hard to give a hobby 100% focus when life gets in the way.

KDAzzari

Wow, these comments are so discouraging! I just started learning chess from scratch on Chess.com a month ago and now I feel like I should just quit. I am nearly 63. What is so different about learning chess vs. other subjects like learning a new language or learning to code that makes it impossible when you're older? I just want to learn to play for fun, to play against my son and my grandchildren. I've been reading, watching instructional videos, doing the lessons here and probably an hour of puzzles every night. I'm not striving for a sky-high rating, just to be able to play the game somewhat competently. It shouldn't be an all or nothing thing.

Jahtreezy
KDAzzari wrote:

Wow, these comments are so discouraging! I just started learning chess from scratch on Chess.com a month ago and now I feel like I should just quit. I am nearly 63. What is so different about learning chess vs. other subjects like learning a new language or learning to code that makes it impossible when you're older? I just want to learn to play for fun, to play against my son and my grandchildren. I've been reading, watching instructional videos, doing the lessons here and probably an hour of puzzles every night. I'm not striving for a sky-high rating, just to be able to play the game somewhat competently. It shouldn't be an all or nothing thing.

I'm not quite that old (but I'm well on the way!). I disagree with the people suggesting that we are capped because of age--I've gotten significantly better with a similar learning style, others here have posted that they are adults with jobs and such and are scraping 2k which is something like the top 1%, maybe top 0.5% of chess players in the world.

I don't think I found the right way to say it, but all of us are far below the "brain biology cap"--investing time and just enjoying the game will yield dividends.

Wits-end
nklristic wrote:
hikaripotchama wrote:

My ceiling may be much lower than I expected. To be honest, it's frustrating and hard to accept, but I can't trade my brain for someone else's. I hope that medical science will advance further and make it possible.

I guess that saying that almost everyone's ceiling is much higher than they think is useless because you've said that you are stubborn, but I will still try.

Even those who are not talented (I am not saying that is the case with you, but there are people who are less talented than others) can get probably over 2 000 chess.com rating if they are committed to chess and they study the right way, plus they devote a lot of time to it (of course it is not realistic from an adult to devote that much time, but some are able to).

The reason why many people don't get very far is their habits. If they do things the wrong way and refuse to change, they will not get very far.

For instance, playing multiple 10 minute games per day and nothing else will not get you far if you are not talented. For instance, if you are not talented (some people are and will progress even by playing blitz, but most of us are not like that), 10 minute chess is way, way too fast for you especially when you are lower rated.

Some people will be around 700 for years doing stuff like that. That is one of the reasons why the average rating is around 600 and some small change.

You need to look through your games. People misunderstand what does this mean, so I will give 2 extreme examples.

Person 1: Plays 10 minute game, then fires up the report, go through moves in 90 seconds and say: Whoa, that was some hard work, on to another game.

Person 2: Plays a longer game and uses his time, which allows him to view the position for much longer even during the game. After the game is done, this person spends 4 hours in order to try to figure every little detail out, and to figure out what makes sense to him, what doesn't.

Most of us are somewhere in between these 2 people.

Suffice to say, person number 2 is very rare, and such a person will do other things as well in order to progress. Such a person can certainly say after let's say 7 years: Ok, I am now certain that my ceiling is X rating.

Person number 1 will say after a few months of playing: Wow, I am so untalented, I have a really low ceiling, which is of course simply not true.

The truth is that person number 1 didn't really try to reach that ceiling, which is completely ok, as not everyone wants to dedicate their time to that anyway, but we should be realistic and try not to lie to ourselves.

Now a bit of encouragement. For most of us chess is a hobby. It can take up as much or as little time as you wish. You shouldn't feel pressured to have to be really strong player.

If you can enjoy it, you can enjoy it on 400 level and on 2 000 level. If you like chess, then play without pressure and improve at your own pace, if that is what you seek and enjoy.

Whatever you decide, I wish you a lot of luck and a nice day.

Quite possibly one of the truest and best posts i've read here in the forum. Enjoy the game! Enjoy the journey!! Great post.

blueemu

Decades ago, in the 1970s, I was stuck at intermediate rating for literally YEARS.

I read books (there was no Home Internet back in those pre-historic days). I memorized opening lines. I played OTB at the city club every week, against players of my own strength or higher. I played in every rated OTB tournament within a hundred kilometers, and occasionally (that's twice) travelled more than a thousand kilometers to play in an OTB tournament against titled players. I analyzed my losses.

And I remained stuck, varying up and down between 1400 to 1600 rating. For years.

I finally decided that I didn't CARE about my rating anymore. I would continue to play in OTB tournaments, but would just play for fun.

By the end of the year, I crossed 1800, and the following year hit 2000 (CFC OTB ratings).

nklristic
Wits-end wrote:
nklristic wrote:
hikaripotchama wrote:

My ceiling may be much lower than I expected. To be honest, it's frustrating and hard to accept, but I can't trade my brain for someone else's. I hope that medical science will advance further and make it possible.

I guess that saying that almost everyone's ceiling is much higher than they think is useless because you've said that you are stubborn, but I will still try.

Even those who are not talented (I am not saying that is the case with you, but there are people who are less talented than others) can get probably over 2 000 chess.com rating if they are committed to chess and they study the right way, plus they devote a lot of time to it (of course it is not realistic from an adult to devote that much time, but some are able to).

The reason why many people don't get very far is their habits. If they do things the wrong way and refuse to change, they will not get very far.

For instance, playing multiple 10 minute games per day and nothing else will not get you far if you are not talented. For instance, if you are not talented (some people are and will progress even by playing blitz, but most of us are not like that), 10 minute chess is way, way too fast for you especially when you are lower rated.

Some people will be around 700 for years doing stuff like that. That is one of the reasons why the average rating is around 600 and some small change.

You need to look through your games. People misunderstand what does this mean, so I will give 2 extreme examples.

Person 1: Plays 10 minute game, then fires up the report, go through moves in 90 seconds and say: Whoa, that was some hard work, on to another game.

Person 2: Plays a longer game and uses his time, which allows him to view the position for much longer even during the game. After the game is done, this person spends 4 hours in order to try to figure every little detail out, and to figure out what makes sense to him, what doesn't.

Most of us are somewhere in between these 2 people.

Suffice to say, person number 2 is very rare, and such a person will do other things as well in order to progress. Such a person can certainly say after let's say 7 years: Ok, I am now certain that my ceiling is X rating.

Person number 1 will say after a few months of playing: Wow, I am so untalented, I have a really low ceiling, which is of course simply not true.

The truth is that person number 1 didn't really try to reach that ceiling, which is completely ok, as not everyone wants to dedicate their time to that anyway, but we should be realistic and try not to lie to ourselves.

Now a bit of encouragement. For most of us chess is a hobby. It can take up as much or as little time as you wish. You shouldn't feel pressured to have to be really strong player.

If you can enjoy it, you can enjoy it on 400 level and on 2 000 level. If you like chess, then play without pressure and improve at your own pace, if that is what you seek and enjoy.

Whatever you decide, I wish you a lot of luck and a nice day.

Quite possibly one of the truest and best posts i've read here in the forum. Enjoy the game! Enjoy the journey!! Great post.

Thank you. It is nice to see that someone actually read that long post. happy.png