So the reason why to take on f2 is actually tactical, and that is why you see the +3 jump in favor of black. You are missing the last move of the computer line which would be 17... Bxd8 exchanging a bishop for a rook. This is why Qxf2. You are attacking the rook with the bishop, and the knight (which is unprotected) at the same time, and white can't defend against both threats at the same time. So you win a pawn, and a rook for a bishop essentially. You also trade off the queens which makes your material advantage even greater. Also the queen trade make the threat of open files toward the king less potent. A +1 advantage may or may not justify opening up lines toward the king, but a +3 advantage is usually worth it (assuming that you don't see a checkmate or tactic give back the advantage). Hope this helps.
How do you know to take the f2 pawn here?
And would you expect an under 1500 too see this? No. Nice if you spot it, no problem if you didn’t. I would guess 1500 is more or less the breaking point.
The position determines whether to take the f2 pawn. Capturing f2 is typically acceptable if it puts the king in danger, interferes with castling, or results in a definite material advantage. Always anticipate possible retaliation and ensure your pieces are secure after the transfer. Analyze the tactical and positional consequences.
And would you expect an under 1500 too see this? No. Nice if you spot it, no problem if you didn’t. I would guess 1500 is more or less the breaking point.
Then, the obvious follow up question is, what instead would an under 1500 play? I brought the queen back to attack the king. Is there another?
The position determines whether to take the f2 pawn. Capturing f2 is typically acceptable if it puts the king in danger, interferes with castling, or results in a definite material advantage. Always anticipate possible retaliation and ensure your pieces are secure after the transfer. Analyze the tactical and positional consequences.
That has nothing to do with my post. The king also is castled on the other side of the board. Make sure your comments are applicable.
I would actually expect that a 1500 woul;d find this.
Anyways, your move made sense (if taking f2 was impossible).
Quick comment on your thoughg proccess: The thing is, The attacking side usually needs pawns in order to open up lines. If you remove all of their pawns, the attack usually fails.
For example, remove f2 and h2, put g6 at g7, and it is actually far harder to break thrugh then it looks.
The thing is, The attacking side usually needs pawns in order to open up lines. If you remove all of their pawns, the attack usually fails.
That actually was my thinking. I thought, "That f pawn can sit there blocking a rook path, I am going to go get the pawn in front of the king."
You keep asking if a player under 1500 should find this, which is the wrong question. The question you should be asking is "What should I be looking for and doing in order to become a player above 1500?"
I would actually expect that a 1500 woul;d find this.
Anyways, your move made sense (if taking f2 was impossible).
Quick comment on your thoughg proccess: The thing is, The attacking side usually needs pawns in order to open up lines. If you remove all of their pawns, the attack usually fails.
For example, remove f2 and h2, put g6 at g7, and it is actually far harder to break thrugh then it looks.
You haven't even looked at the position, right?
You keep asking if a player under 1500 should find this, which is the wrong question. The question you should be asking is "What should I be looking for and doing in order to become a player above 1500?"
Either you know the answer and are hiding it, or you don't know the answer and could ask it yourself.
My question is my question. I am interested in under 1500 expectations. If you want to seek above 1500, that can be your quest.
When I went through the game with Stockfish after the game, I was very surprised by its lines. How would you know the continuation, and would you expect an under 1500 player to recognize it? Move 15 for black.
You can figure out by looking at checks and captures, as it is recommended. If you didn't find the move in the heat of the battle, that's perfectly normal.
The point is that you should look at it afterwards and try to understand it.
When I went through the game with Stockfish after the game, I was very surprised by its lines. How would you know the continuation, and would you expect an under 1500 player to recognize it? Move 15 for black.
You can figure out by looking at checks and captures, as it is recommended. If you didn't find the move in the heat of the battle, that's perfectly normal.
The point is that you should look at it afterwards and try to understand it.
I can understand the GM game today, Round 12 between Ding and Gukesh. That doesn't address my question.
Here, maybe if I make it larger you guys can understand.
I DON'T GIVE TWO FIG NEWTONS WHAT THE ENGINE SAYS.
I AM ASKING WHAT AN UNDER 1500 PLAYER SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO PLAY.
I can’t really relate to your question. Partly because I am not under 1500 but also because I feel the question is hard to answer. Depending on how far under 1500 you go, any move goes, including not being aware that the queen is hanging and develop the knight.
I can’t really relate to your question. Partly because I am not under 1500 but also because I feel the question is hard to answer. Depending on how far under 1500 you go, any move goes, including not being aware that the queen is hanging and develop the knight.
Then don't reply. You are not obligated to say, "I don't know."
The issue for white is not only he is losing the pawn. After Qxf2, the knight is attacked plus the rook is hanging, and this is why this position is so lost. Black king is for now ok, bishop-queen battery looks strong, but it is blocked for now and the only way for it to really become a threat is to force this pawn of the board somehow. So d4 might be an idea, but it looks a bit slow, it doesn't threaten mate immediately, so black will win some material.
After black wins material, sure he has to be a bit careful.
Actually the engine wants white to exchange queens , which is ridiculous from human perspective, but is probably the only way to save this knight. From white's perspective this is very bad, perhaps some speculative sacrifice would be needed to create a chance AKA Nxg6, but it surely doesn't work.
The only way to know for sure is to calculate, but every Rf1 move is met with taking of the knight, and white might get some activity, but it doesn't look enough for now. If e5 wasn't on the board it would be different, but that pawn is there. White can only pray that he will cause black to make a blunder after he wins material.
But the more I look at this from white's perspective the more hopeless it seems for him.
Why are you worried about a White attack down the f-file?
White's light-squared Bishop has already been traded off. You still have yours.
How exactly is White supposed to get an attack against the f7 square when YOU dominate the light squares?
Actually the engine wants white to exchange queens , which is ridiculous from human perspective, but is probably the only way to save this knight. From white's perspective this is very bad, perhaps some speculative sacrifice would be needed to create a chance AKA Nxg6, but it surely doesn't work.
The only way to know for sure is to calculate, but every Rf1 move is met with taking of the knight, and white might get some activity, but it doesn't look enough for now. If e5 wasn't on the board it would be different, but that pawn is there. White can only pray that he will cause black to make a blunder after he wins material.
But the more I look at this from white's perspective the more hopeless it seems for him.
That's exactly what I was feeling after the game when going through it with the engine.
I understand it is 1 point, but I was afraid opening up the f file would give white's rooks a chance for attack. I was on the right track deciding to go for a queen trade, and as you can see white didn't challenge it much. It brought the evaluation from 5+ to 1+ though. I thought taking the c pawn would be more valuable than taking the f pawn.
When I went through the game with Stockfish after the game, I was very surprised by its lines. How would you know the continuation, and would you expect an under 1500 player to recognize it? Move 15 for black.