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Why are there no move explanations here?

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Drummer_GD_Elijah

Game: https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/702726047?tab=review&move=12

As you can see from the screenshot, why do h4 and h6 have no coach explanations here? I have a diamond membership which means I have coach explanations for every move. At least, I'm SUPPOSED to. Maybe the membership wasn't worth it...? Plus they're BOOK moves. This doesn't seem right. Also, 7...h6 8. Bd3, even though 8...Bxd3 is a "book" move (meaning there are other options than just that, right?) it praises the move as being the only good move. Yet with the classification of being a book move, so why does it not have an exclamation mark?

AshtonAlSiva

Isn't that a bad move ? That can;t be a book move

CheDA13
AshtonAlSiva wrote:

Isn't that a bad move ? That can;t be a book move

I think Its one of the main lines

jackityjackjack

Yes, that's a book move. If it is the last book move, there's a good chance it won't have any explanations, also if it's not your first game of the day and you don't have diamond.

Killua_the_assassin

thats a bad move

Drummer_GD_Elijah
jackityjackjack wrote:

Yes, that's a book move. If it is the last book move, there's a good chance it won't have any explanations, also if it's not your first game of the day and you don't have diamond.

No, I know it's a book move, but it's not the last book move, and I have diamond, that's why I'm confused

yeah I probably should've mentioned that, Imma edit the OP

Drummer_GD_Elijah
AshtonAlSiva wrote:

Isn't that a bad move ? That can;t be a book move

Reminds me of the people in the comments of the daily puzzle thinking that a move is bad before actually checking with the engine (or in this case, the explorer 😉)

Drummer_GD_Elijah
CheDA13 wrote:
AshtonAlSiva wrote:

Isn't that a bad move ? That can;t be a book move

I think Its one of the main lines

Yes, in fact it is THE main line. I say main because it's really the only line. Perhaps that's why the explanation for Bxd3 was because it's the only move that works, but then if so, why have it as a book move? Isn't it possible for it to have a ! followed by more book moves? Perhaps that's the heart of the problem.

Drummer_GD_Elijah
Killua_the_assassin wrote:

thats a bad move

read #7, it isn't a bad move just cause it looks useless on the surface at first glance

Optimissed
Drummer_GD_Elijah wrote:

Game: https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/702726047?tab=review&move=12

As you can see from the screenshot, why do h4 and h6 have no coach explanations here? I have a diamond membership which means I have coach explanations for every move. At least, I'm SUPPOSED to. Maybe the membership wasn't worth it...? Plus they're BOOK moves. This doesn't seem right. Also, 7...h6 8. Bd3, even though 8...Bxd3 is a "book" move (meaning there are other options than just that, right?) it praises the move as being the only good move. Yet with the classification of being a book move, so why does it not have an exclamation mark?

White threatens to win black's bishop. Black gives it an escape square. They are book moves but obviously they are not the last book moves.

I personally don't use Game Review. Not even my daily free one. It's full of platitudes and stating the obvious.

h4 would be "white takes space on the K side in preperation for a possible endgame and threatens to win black's bishop". h6 would be "black gives the B an escape square".

In related positions especially in the Advance Caro, black can play h5 instead of h6, but h6 is considered a better winning try for black.

BxB does not gain a ! since it's a book move.

Hripfria202

I also would like coach explanations especially for these moves like that. Because many times I don't understand these moves like a4, h4 etc, although they are often considered best according to game review

rodilihp

You are not going to like this, but the coach and review are not accurate! Their evaluations almost never agree with the engine!?!(Strange). The big test that the reviewer and the coach fail is that they can't characterize any moves or positions as "!?" interesting,  "∞" unclear, "=/∞" with compensation for the material, or as, "N" Novelties. It can never be real chess "WORK" without these concepts.

It's a toy!?! When it can't duplicate the real world, it will make something up!? Every move that is supposed to get a !? will get a ?! or a ? from the coach or reviewer even when the engine disagrees about the coach's or reviewer's evaluation. The same will happen when the move or position becomes ∞ unclear, or when the move or position has =/∞ compensation for the material!?!

Ultimately if you are trying to do any serious study of an opening, you need to be comparing the recommendations of a, Grandmaster written book, a non blitz database, and an engine! The tools here are ok for us mere mortals. They are toy versions of the real things we need to improve!?!. Not 1 internet service provider has ever made any claim of superiority! The only make claims of availability!?

If the symbols I shared with you are new to you, please get a real book as soon as possible so that you can have tool chess instead of toy chess thoughts!!

Drummer_GD_Elijah
rodilihp wrote:

You are not going to like this, but the coach and review are not accurate! Their evaluations almost never agree with the engine!?!(Strange). The big test that the reviewer and the coach fail is that they can't characterize any moves or positions as "!?" interesting,  "∞" unclear, "=/∞" with compensation for the material, or as, "N" Novelties. It can never be real chess "WORK" without these concepts.

It's a toy!?! When it can't duplicate the real world, it will make something up!? Every move that is supposed to get a !? will get a ?! or a ? from the coach or reviewer even when the engine disagrees about the coach's or reviewer's evaluation. The same will happen when the move or position becomes ∞ unclear, or when the move or position has =/∞ compensation for the material!?!

Ultimately if you are trying to do any serious study of an opening, you need to be comparing the recommendations of a, Grandmaster written book, a non blitz database, and an engine! The tools here are ok for us mere mortals. They are toy versions of the real things we need to improve!?!. Not 1 internet service provider has ever made any claim of superiority! The only make claims of availability!?

If the symbols I shared with you are new to you, please get a real book as soon as possible so that you can have tool chess instead of toy chess thoughts!!

I actually do this like this a lot, and thank you for posting! And yes, I do know all the annotations you used, thanks for bringing that point up. Yeah, I've noticed, sometimes when I used Game Review for some of my tournament games, I switched up probably about 75% of all the annotations because some were clear blunders (but given an ?! by GV) or were "inaccuracies" even though it's just a gambit line that I learned on YouTube and have had success with. I also just watched GothamChess's video "The Truth About Game Review", which has helped tremendously, especially when analyzing my games (online and tournament games).

I think it's very interesting that the coach and the engine don't agree, because even I, NOT even a titled player or even an advanced chess player, understand the nuances and non-perfection of Game Review (like what I stated above). It may be satisfactory for beginners, but not for a serious player like me lol

WorstPlayerEver

You guys dont know what is a book move or what? A book move is a part of an opening. For example e4 e5 nf3 nf6 bc4 are all book moves because they form the Italian game

Drummer_GD_Elijah

I know what a book move is, yes. Are you referring to me as "you guys"?

Drummer_GD_Elijah

I just find it interesting that chess.com's GV doesn't allow any other move classifications BEFORE reaching the last book move. So pathetic. What rule is there for that? Because the positions may be well known? So what?

basketstorm

It's not like there's nothing to be said. Read below, ChatGPT (I mean most advanced version of it, simpler version is too dumb for describing chess) provides couple of short but very informative summaries about both moves:

In the Caro-Kann Defense (Advance Variation) up to move 7, both White and Black are following a strategic plan where each side aims to develop pieces, control key squares, and influence the center. Let's break down the reasoning behind each player's 7th move, including their potential advantages and drawbacks.

White's Move: 7. h4

Reasoning:

  • Aggressive Play: White's move 7. h4 is an aggressive pawn push aimed at attacking Black’s bishop on g6. It’s a thematic move in the Caro-Kann, often seen in this type of structure, with the idea of gaining space on the kingside and pushing the Black bishop to a less active square.
  • Kingside Initiative: White plans to initiate an attack on the kingside, where the h-pawn could advance further with h5 to challenge Black’s control of the g6 square and drive the bishop away. This can lead to greater control of the kingside.
  • Space Advantage: By pushing h4, White gains space on the kingside, potentially creating the opportunity for future attacks (e.g., opening up the h-file for a rook).

Advantages:

  1. Dislodging the Bishop: White forces the Black bishop on g6 to make a decision. If White follows up with h5, Black's bishop could be forced to retreat, losing its strong diagonal and potentially becoming passive.
  2. Kingside Play: The move gives White active prospects for a kingside attack, especially if Black castles kingside. It could serve as a basis for a pawn storm if White chooses to castle queenside later.
  3. Flexibility: h4 allows White to keep Black's bishop restricted, while retaining flexibility in terms of development, such as delaying castling or keeping options open for future moves like Bd3.

Drawbacks:

  1. Weakening of Kingside: Advancing the h-pawn can slightly weaken White's own kingside pawn structure, which could become a problem if White plans to castle kingside. Without the h-pawn on h2, Black could have counterattacking chances on this flank.
  2. Commitment: The move is somewhat committal in nature. If Black can successfully defend the kingside and White overextends with pawn pushes, White may lose time and coordination.

Black's Move: 7...h6

Reasoning:

  • Preemptive Move: Black’s 7...h6 is a defensive response to White’s h4. The idea is to prevent White from easily advancing the pawn with h5 and driving the g6-bishop away.
  • Creating Luft for the King: This move creates a "luft" (escape square) for the Black king, which can be useful in some cases to avoid back-rank threats. This could also be useful if Black castles kingside later in the game.
  • Restricting White’s Attack: By playing h6, Black aims to slow down White's potential kingside attack, especially by controlling the g5 square, preventing a knight or bishop from landing there. It also buys time for Black to complete development.

Advantages:

  1. Prevents h5: The primary goal of h6 is to prevent White from advancing h5 and immediately forcing Black's bishop to retreat from g6, thus preserving the bishop’s position on a good diagonal.
  2. Flexibility: By stopping immediate threats on the kingside, Black buys time to continue with other key moves, such as developing the light-squared bishop (Be7) or castling kingside safely.
  3. King Safety: It creates an escape square (luft) for Black’s king, which could be useful in case of future threats like back-rank mates.

Drawbacks:

  1. Potential Weakness: The move creates a slight weakness on the g6 and g5 squares. White could potentially exploit this later by attacking with a knight or bishop on g5 or g6.
  2. Loss of Tempo: While the move is solid defensively, it doesn’t contribute directly to piece development. Black is using a pawn move where a developing move like Ngf6 or Be7 might have been more productive for immediate piece activity.
  3. Kingside Pawn Structure: Advancing the h-pawn to h6 could make it harder to maintain a solid kingside structure in the long term, especially if White breaks through with pawn advances like g4, preparing a kingside attack.

Summary of Move 7:

  • White’s 7. h4 is an aggressive, space-gaining move aimed at kingside pressure, with the potential to weaken Black's defenses and launch an attack. However, it also carries some risk of overextending or weakening White's own kingside.

  • Black’s 7...h6 is a defensive, solidifying move meant to slow down White’s attack and safeguard the kingside. It preserves the g6-bishop’s position but doesn’t develop any pieces, and it could lead to weaknesses if White can break through later.

Both moves are thematic and align with the players' broader goals in the position: White seeks to attack, and Black aims to hold back White’s initiative while continuing development.


are these book moves?


Yes, the moves you provided up to 7. h4 h6 are considered "book moves" in certain variations of the Caro-Kann Defense, specifically in the Classical Variation (also known as the Capablanca Variation).

Here’s the breakdown:

  1. 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5

    • This is the typical Caro-Kann Defense structure, where Black exchanges in the center and develops the light-squared bishop outside the pawn chain before playing e6.
  2. 5. Ng3 Bg6

    • Black retreats the bishop to g6 after White's knight attacks it. This is also very standard.
  3. 6. Nf3 Nd7

    • Black develops the knight to d7, aiming to support the pawn structure and prepare moves like Ngf6 or e6.
  4. 7. h4 h6

    • 7. h4 is a common and aggressive move for White in this line, and 7...h6 is a well-known response to stop White from playing h5 immediately, which would force the Black bishop to retreat.

Book Knowledge:

  • 7. h4 is a mainline idea, a thematic pawn push used by White to pressure Black’s g6 bishop and initiate kingside play.
  • 7...h6 is a typical defensive reaction for Black, also part of the standard theory, preventing White's immediate h5.

These moves are commonly found in high-level games and opening theory, particularly in the Classical Caro-Kann. Many top players have employed this variation, so they are well-established book moves.

jackityjackjack
Drummer_GD_Elijah wrote:

I just find it interesting that chess.com's GV doesn't allow any other move classifications BEFORE reaching the last book move. So pathetic. What rule is there for that? Because the positions may be well known? So what?

Actually no, it will let you do that.

Theishvalan

another long term idea of h4. h6. h5 Bh7 is that if you get all the pieces off, white should be better because the 2 kingside pawns for black are more frozen than that one dude from Frozen. Black will be worse if that happens.