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How can I find the best move?

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Eznid

I would never have found by myself the best move and the variation for this position in the attached picture below (white to move). When the engine suggested it I was astounded. I am looking for a specific advise on how could I by myself be able to find that best line, what methods - as a mortal human - do I need to apply in each case to find that best move (please no generalities, or copy/paste regurgitation, if I needed banalities I would have asked chat GPT for advise instead happy.png ). Here is the position: White to move.

tygxc

It is an elimination process. Bd3 wins the black queen.

JETINATE
Nah Bd3 then there is Qb3
Eznid
tygxc wrote:

It is an elimination process. Bd3 wins the black queen.

Unfortunately "an elimination process" is too vague to be useful. In addition even it it weren't, that doesn't work for a human. If you are not mathematically inclined, to be able to "see" the advantage of that move you'll need to eliminate at least about 40000 nodes/positions to reach it (even if a human may be slightly more efficient than an engine at eliminating null positions and such, that would bring the number down only slightly). So no thanks. Next?

blueemu

You find it first by assessing the important features of the position, then by calculation.

Features:

1) Black is hopelessly behind in development, with only two pieces in action (and with BOTH of them exposed to White's attack) compared to four white pieces. An advantage in time and development says "Look for a decisive combination".

2) Black's King is very unsafe, since his back rank is weak and vulnerable to mating threats. The Rook on e8 is unguarded, and if attacked (eg: by White's Qe3) it cannot capture the attacker without allowing White's Rook to checkmate at d8.

All of this naturally suggests the continuation 1. Bd3 Black-Q-moves 2. Qe4! forking the unguarded Rook on e8 and also the unguarded Pawn on h7.

That's how my own thought processes went. I haven't even looked at an engine, so this is just my opinion.

Eznid
blueemu wrote:

You find it first by assessing the important features of the position, then by calculation.

Features:

1) Black is hopelessly behind in development, with only two pieces in action (and with BOTH of them exposed to White's attack) compared to four white pieces. An advantage in time and development says "Look for a decisive combination".

2) Black's King is very unsafe, since his back rank is weak and vulnerable to mating threats. The Rook on e8 is unguarded, and if attacked (eg: by White's Qe3) it cannot capture the attacker without allowing White's Rook to checkmate at d8.

All of this naturally suggests the continuation 1. Bd3 Black-Q-moves 2. Qe4! forking the unguarded Rook on e8 and also the unguarded Pawn on h7.

That's how my own thought processes went. I haven't even looked at an engine, so this is just my opinion.

Thanks, that's what I precisely want to know, how a human thinks about this. I'm not interested in how the engine "thinks". I mean basically the engine doesn't think, it applies the thinking of humans (the programmed static evaluation functions on positions), its main advantage is the depth of its searches, all the branching node positions to evaluate that a human cannot do in the same manner.

blueemu
Eznid wrote:

Thanks, that's what I precisely want to know, how a human thinks about this.

I can offer an excellent example from one of my own games... how to find the HARDEST-TO-FIND move on the board.

In this case... I FAILED to find the best move, but I did find a pretty good one.

This is a bit of an edge-case, though. Be warned.

The key to finding the combination is the twin weaknesses at f7 and e7.
chessterd5

black is lost for multiple reasons.

I think the deeper lesson here for the human player is:

Don't engage in an attack deep in enemy territory when

1) your only single advanced piece is not supported.

2) you are behind in development.

3) you are behind in time.

4) you bear no influence on the center, let alone control.

this is an example of why an undeveloped bishop splitting the rooks is generally a disadvantage.

blueemu

If you wanted to know where I got that An advantage in time and development says "Look for a decisive combination" stuff... try reading my posts in this thread.

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

My posts # 4, 7-to-10, and 12, plus the three illustrative games on the first three pages of the thread.

If you are pressed for time, just read post #12.

tygxc

Try to find the best move: it will end the game. That is good use of your time.

blueemu
essential12345 wrote:

don't try to find the best it will waste all your time

Almost true.

The rule is "Don't waste your time searching for a decisive tactic in equal positions".

The point is that winning moves DO NOT EXIST in equal positions. You will only find a winning move if you are ALREADY in a winning position. That's what MAKES it a winning position!

... so the real trick is to be able to assess the position correctly, so that you will KNOW whether or not your position is winning, so you will KNOW whether or not it is worth spending the time looking for a decisive tactic.

Try reading the first few pages of that thread that I linked in post #10 above.

tygxc

"When you see a good move, look for a better one."

- Lasker

tygxc

In position @1 Bd3 ends the game right there, so it is justified to use all remaining time to find it. After a subpar move like Bc4 Be6 or Re1 Be6 the game can drag on and you can lose on time.

In position @8 Bd7 ends the game right there, so it is justified to use all remaining time to find it.
Qd7 Qxd7 Bxd7 gxf5 is less clear and may drag on.

Laskersnephew

You should always be looking out for threats, and here you have one: Bd3 attacks the black queen, and that queen doesn't seem to have many places to go. Can he take the Bc3? No. Bxh7 wins the queen. Can he go to b3 or a2? Then you have Bc4! Hitting the queen and f7. The calculation here is easy--once you start looking. The trick is to see the possibility in the first place. And if you are always looking for threats, you will spot Bd3.

blueemu
tygxc wrote:

In position @1 Bd3 ends the game right there, so it is justified to use all remaining time to find it. After a subpar move like Bc4 Be6 or Re1 Be6 the game can drag on and you can lose on time.

In position @8 Bd7 ends the game right there, so it is justified to use all remaining time to find it.
Qd7 Qxd7 Bxd7 gxf5 is less clear and may drag on.

Yes, but that's putting the cart in front of the horse. You have to invest the time before you find the move... before you even KNOW whether the move exists.

I maintain that the critical step is the positional assessment, to decide whether or not you hold a winning advantage. It's a waste of time searching for a winning move if you don't have a won position. No such move will exist.

Eznid
essential12345 wrote:

Speaking of putting the cart before the horse it's like searching for the best horse in your entire country to pull your cart 100 meters before the sun goes down while there are very good horses that can be found much quicker that will get the job done. It's a waste of time searching for the best horse or best move for every single move

Finding a strong winning move (albeit not "the" best move) is very good as well. However it is also challenging and may take time. However playing mediocre / average moves quickly while anxiously watching the timer ticking down is a bad way to go. It should be a balance between the two. For now it is more important for me to discover a good method to identify good/best moves, identifying them quickly would be a next step.

blueemu

Did you look at the thread I linked?

Grandmaster Evans laid out a method for assessing positions, orienting yourself, and determining in very general terms what you should attempt to do.

Eznid
blueemu wrote:

Did you look at the thread I linked?

Grandmaster Evans laid out a method for assessing positions, orienting yourself, and determining in very general terms what you should attempt to do.

Yes I read that thanks it was helpful

blueemu
essential12345 wrote:

you can't always find a strong winning move either and always looking for one wastes time. That's a common problem trying to find a winning move or trying to win. Instead of trying to win, try to not lose

This is advice for Blitz.

Not for serious chess.

The proper advice for serious chess is to learn WHEN it's worth spending time looking for a crushing move. Winning moves are ONLY found in winning positions. Learn how to recognize winning positions.

15abhi01
bd3 if qb3 or qa2 then bc4 attacking queen and threathening check and rook