BasketStorm, do you think that Danya is a computer cheater?
Kramnik Hates Chess.com
Sort:
Artful_Chess_Dodger wrote:
BasketStorm, do you think that Danya is a computer cheater?
What I think is you did not read my posts carefully enough. Let me quote myself, I wrote 41 minutes ago in this topic:
I don't think Danya is a cheater.
Danya doesn't have to use an engine to explain moves. Using an engine is a common thing even at super GM level to check lines that are hard to see for humans.
b) "it's a violation to use the engine to analyze the position you're playin" -- sure that's what he violated and admitted that and apologized. Speedrun or not, that's a violation.
c) - you're missing the point
This is something you'd understand better if you were not rated 360
Out of arguments? Still you don't have to comment on my rating. My real rating is much higher, I have never played seriously here and I actually don't play online pvp here anymore.
But you don't, because you cannot beat anyone at chess, because you spend all your time obsessing over cheating a
You should spend less time doing personal attacks. This is not allowed here.
ibrust wrote:
No, he analyzed the position on move 8 while he was on move 20 or something. Yet another nonsense accusation.
I'm done debating a 360 elo player about cheating. If anyone else wants to take over have at it.
Of course you're done, because all you can say now is that I'm low rated that's why you are "right" lol.
ibrust wrote:
Cheating accusations are not allowed here. But pointing out your pathetic 360 elo makes you unable to comprehend what it feels like to beat an opponent... it's actually relevant to this debate.
I did not accuse anyone. Pointing at someones Elo makes you feel better about yourself and that's what is truly pathetic.
ibrust wrote:
You did not make a single valid point in this conversation, at some point it's just over with. You people try to make debates into a game of whakc-a-mole where every bad point that gets shut down is just responded to with yet another bad point, we could do this all day but when you fail repeatedly to make the case for cheating, at some point the debate is just done with. I mean you can keep rambling but I can't stay here until you stop rambling.
I made a lot of valid points, while your points degraded to discussing online rating that you see in my profile. Go look at it once more. Don't forget to check out puzzle rating.
ibrust wrote:
Of course you did - you said having the engine running during the game is cheating, even if you're not analyzing the current position.
Outright lie and manipulation. I did not say "even if you're not analyzing the current position", that's your interpretation. From my previous posts it is clear that I understand the situation with engine usage in all details and it's clear that by running I meant starting it to analyze the ongoing game.
but you clearly said Danya was cheating.
Do you think lying will make your points valid or what? What is this? Is this your way of debating? Very low level. Much lower than Elo in my profile lol.
ou know, because he's actually contributing something
I never said Danya is not contributing or that Danya is bad or that Danya is a cheater. You have a distorted perception of my posts.
Danya used an engine in an educational speedrun game. This is somehow an indicator he cheats? Hans used engines to legit cheat, and is apparantly not suspicious at all, nor was he. I'm confused.
Also, we are still debating ONLINE cheating, not the relevant OTB cheating.
JuniorS-B wrote:
Danya used an engine in an educational speedrun game. This is somehow an indicator he cheats?
No, it is not a proof that he cheats. But in the way it appeared it is a good reason for Kramnik to suspect him.
And he is one of the top 5 players all time in bullet I'd say. So he is obviously good at chess. Without an engine.
ibrust wrote:
basketstorm wrote:
ibrust wrote:
Of course you did - you said having the engine running during the game is cheating, even if you're not analyzing the current position.
Outright lie and manipulation. I did not say "even if you're not analyzing the current position", that's your interpretation. From my previous posts it is clear that I understand the situation with engine usage in all details and it's clear that by running I meant starting it to analyze the ongoing game.
but you clearly said Danya was cheating.
Do you think lying will make your points valid or what? What is this? Is this your way of debating? Very low level. Much lower than Elo in my profile lol.
ou know, because he's actually contributing something
I never said Danya is not contributing or that Danya is bad or that Danya is a cheater. You have a distorted perception of my posts.
Danya used the engine to analyze move 8 of the game while he was on move 20. You said what he did was cheating. If this isn't cheating then what argument do you have? He didn't cheat and that's obvious, end of discussion.
I didn't say he was cheating, stop lying really.
JuniorS-B wrote:
And he is one of the top 5 players all time in bullet I'd say. So he is obviously good at chess. Without an engine.
No doubts. And?
That is reason enough to not suspect him.
JuniorS-B wrote:
That is reason enough to not suspect him.
No. And also because he is a good educator, a handsome man - also not a reason to not to suspect him. You know that some titled players and GMs do cheat. No one is a priory innocent. No one can be trusted online.
ibrust wrote:
You said he cheated right here, dunce.
Stop lying and stop insulting me. This is not a place for insults. I am reporting you for this.
And also stop manipulating like this: claim is that he committed a violation i.e. cheated
Because not every violation is cheating. And Danya himself agreed that it is a violation, somehow you disagree even with Danya.
ibrust wrote:
If a mod comes into this thread and reads it they will probably delete your posts for making cheating accusations and thank me for shunning your public misconduct.
I have never accused anyone but you must be punished for insulting me, this is not allowed, read community policy.
So then let's just assume everyone cheats. You cheat, I cheat. Magnus cheats, Kramnik cheats. Everyone cheats. Online chess is dead. Why do you play if everyone cheats? There is no point.
By any standard, I cannot prove my cheating innocence online. Neither can you. Neither can Kramnik. Neither can Danya, or anyone. It's dead. Chess can only be OTB folks, and if it's OTB, nobody cares?
Kramnik does not even follow simple logic - when Danya is doing an educational speedrun, his 1100 opponent throws away a queen and the game is over, so Danya pulls up the engine to do retrospective game analysis for his audience - this is not cheating, and anyone who cannot tell the difference is mentally incapable of judging these situations.
I see you've edited your post removing that insult. It is not Kramnik's fault that that the speedrun video is so suspicious. 20 seconds were taken out by Danya's editor as Danya explained and original video is lost according to Danya. I don't think Danya is a cheater. But that video looks odd because of the way it is edited. And now Danya can't prove that he entered the moves manually with a mouse because he only has his words. I believe him but Kramnik has no reasons to believe in just words and that's his right. He has some data on Danya, it's not just that speedrun. And it's not like Kramnik's goal is to defeat Danya or something like that. Kramnik targets something larger. Danya is like a knight attacked by a pawn (Kramnik's questions). But Kramnik's ultimate goal is to checkmate the king (online cheating). He acts like a great chess player and he knows what he is doing.
The video isn't suspicious, it is an 1100 opponent in an educational video and the opponent threw the queen away, it was extremely obvious to everyone watching that the game was over and Danya was doing analysis for the audience. This was not difficult to figure out. This did not require deep investigation to figure out.
Kramnik has done far more harm to the anti-cheating movement than good. He has made it into a laughing stock. He isn't playing 3-D chess or something. Nonsense accusations do not help the anti-cheating movement, at all. And considering the way he ignores peoples explanations and tries to frame the data in the most suspicious way he can while leaving out anything that would cast doubt on his hypothesis - it's pretty clear to me he's allowed this crusade to get personal, and he's not genuinely pursuing truth. Anyone pursuing truth would have recognized from the beginning this Danya cheating accusation is a non-issue. Why didn't Kramnik recognize that? Is he mentally handicapped or is he ignoring the truth?
Keep trying
No it was not "extremely obvious" (I mean it was obvious that Danya does not need engine help to defeat that 1100). But suspicions are reasonable, key points:
- why does he have to use engine to explain moves in game with 1100, he's a GM after all
- running engine during live game is a violation (Danya agrees and regrets that) + reasonable question from Kramnik to chess.com: why Danya wasn't banned for that
- it appeared like Danya had a system that somehow evaluates a running game automatically. Danya explained why it appeared like that (because part where he enters moves with a mouse was edited out) but because of that edit and because Danya can't show the original video anymore, it looks suspicious, you can't deny that
Kramnik has other insights on Danya, that engine usage during live game is just one small piece. Do not focus only on this alone.
What do you mean by keep trying? I'm not trying anything.