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Who are the Elo gatekeepers?

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JohnnyErasmic

Recently I've seen a number of references to the 'elo gatekeepers'. What is meant by this? Do they exist or is this a metaphor? If they do exist - what do they do, where, with whom and why? 

Superplayer7472

There is some dude JankogajdaskoLEM who thinks chess.com have a conspiracy that keeps people at low elo. These accounts that "keep them at low elo" are called gatekeepers, and they don't exist. Or, they do in a way, but they are just like other people who want to win. They are not stronger than their rating, and the reason Janko is bieng "gatekept" is that he's not improving, while the community of ~600 rated people is not getting worse.

JohnnyErasmic

Aha @Superplayer7472 thanks for the info. I have read theories that ratings are fixed algorithmically, for example if a new member wins their first games they will be encouraged to stay on the site, which benefits chess.com, and suggesting the possibility that there are bots disguised as humans to achieve this. But this sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

MaetsNori
JohnnyErasmic wrote: I have read theories that ratings are fixed algorithmically, for example if a new member wins their first games they will be encouraged to stay on the site, which benefits chess.com, and suggesting the possibility that there are bots disguised as humans to achieve this. But this sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

Yes, that's ... just a conspiracy theory.

Some people prefer to point blame at others for their own lack of chess progress (at a conspiratorial "system" intent on deflating their ratings, for example) ... In most cases though, the difficulties actually come from the player's own choices.

I'd say the biggest barriers to progress are one's study habits (or lack thereof), and the desire to rush into new games, instead of taking the time to learn from the games recently played ...

EloGateKeeper

EloGateKeeper oppression is real

JohnnyErasmic

@EloGateKeeper what evidence is there?

EloGateKeeper

Here a player demonstrate with numbers and stats a pool of player with the Oppresion gatekeeping factor attach to them.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/checking-if-elo-system-is-oppressive-with-proofs

ashvasan
JankogajdaskoLEM just posted threads about them, and his threads got 1000+ posts and he gained followers who want someplace to vent there anger abt not being at a certain rating
Lord_Phan

I have not been oppressed or 'gatekept'. I am in my early 40's and am improving. I just hit 1500. Months ago, 1500's were too strong for me, but now they are tough games I have the ability to win sometimes. 
My 7 yr old(soon to be 8) son has gone from 100 to 1000 since February.

If he keeps practising and studying he'll get even better, if not he'll stagnate.

EloGateKeeper
ashvasan wrote:
JankogajdaskoLEM just posted threads about them, and his threads got 1000+ posts and he gained followers who want someplace to vent there anger abt not being at a certain rating

Yah pretty fun. This group of kids are clever and hilarious I admit

IsraeliGal

it's a nonsensical conspiracy theory that chess.com has bots that gatekeep how high peoples ELO can get or something like that. Like they'll claim if you get too high of a winstreak you'll get force paired with one of these higher performing bots to regulate your ELO.

Not sure if im getting it 100% right, but its something similar to that, and its all idiocy. Chess.com wouldnt waste their time with that. some people cant accept that they can lose a game, and in fact lose more than one game in a row fair and square.

EloGateKeeper
IsraeliGal wrote:

it's a nonsensical conspiracy theory that chess.com has bots that gatekeep how high peoples ELO can get or something like that. Like they'll claim if you get too high of a winstreak you'll get force paired with one of these higher performing bots to regulate your ELO.

Not sure if im getting it 100% right, but its something similar to that, and its all idiocy. Chess.com wouldnt waste their time with that. some people cant accept that they can lose a game, and in fact lose more than one game in a row fair and square.

Palestine stay strong!

JohnnyErasmic

I've read basketstorm's post https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/checking-if-elo-system-is-oppressive-with-proofs but it doesn't really make sense to me. Admittedly, I don't know much about coding and algorithms. But basically I have to ask myself "why would chess.com do this? How would they benefit from restricting people's progress?"

EloGateKeeper
JohnnyErasmic wrote:

I've read basketstorm's post https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/checking-if-elo-system-is-oppressive-with-proofs but it doesn't really make sense to me. Admittedly, I don't know much about coding and algorithms. But basically I have to ask myself "why would chess.com do this? How would they benefit from restricting people's progress?"

There is logic to it since low elo with get roll over by high elo player plus the fake bot account. This platform have zero basic security like double anthentification factor with a phone number. Thats why ya see bunch of fake bot account advertise adult innapropriate content on the furum etc.

But ya most of all this is a clever kid running gag. grin.png

IsraeliGal
EloGateKeeper wrote:
IsraeliGal wrote:

it's a nonsensical conspiracy theory that chess.com has bots that gatekeep how high peoples ELO can get or something like that. Like they'll claim if you get too high of a winstreak you'll get force paired with one of these higher performing bots to regulate your ELO.

Not sure if im getting it 100% right, but its something similar to that, and its all idiocy. Chess.com wouldnt waste their time with that. some people cant accept that they can lose a game, and in fact lose more than one game in a row fair and square.

Palestine stay strong!

"Joined 17 hours ago"

EloGateKeeper
IsraeliGal wrote:
EloGateKeeper wrote:
IsraeliGal wrote:

it's a nonsensical conspiracy theory that chess.com has bots that gatekeep how high peoples ELO can get or something like that. Like they'll claim if you get too high of a winstreak you'll get force paired with one of these higher performing bots to regulate your ELO.

Not sure if im getting it 100% right, but its something similar to that, and its all idiocy. Chess.com wouldnt waste their time with that. some people cant accept that they can lose a game, and in fact lose more than one game in a row fair and square.

Palestine stay strong!

"Joined 17 hours ago"

Palestine win!

basketstorm
JohnnyErasmic wrote:

I've read basketstorm's post https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/checking-if-elo-system-is-oppressive-with-proofs but it doesn't really make sense to me. Admittedly, I don't know much about coding and algorithms. But basically I have to ask myself "why would chess.com do this? How would they benefit from restricting people's progress?"

Beware, by asking such questions, you basically invite trolls who would try to convince you that everything is ok, that it's just the skill issue of novice players. Do your own research. I can explain though, there are three versions:

1) Chess.com belongs to the evil Chess Matrix org. That org forces them to do the actual Elo gatekeeping. From arranging rigged games to more serious things like time manipulations. It is the most adequate version but it does not answer your "why would they benefit" question, so read next:

2) They've deliberately crafted this unfair system to encourage users to pay for subscription that offers lessons and puzzles. Your rating drops - you think you're not good and need teachings and advanced reviews. But those things aren't free here. That's how they would benefit. That's a possibility, I'm not claiming that's true. But just think about it.

And version #3) They just don't care about accuracy. This version has the most proofs. Because the original Elo rating system (that was designed for FIDE by Arpad Elo) has certain guidelines and warnings that are clearly ignored here and even on lichess.

Some other proofs are:

- mathematical simulation that displays impossibility to obtain fair ratings just by using increments especially when a hard rating floor is present.

- Arpad Elo used recalculations and only allowed increments in non-localized pools. Before merging localized pools he advised special tournaments with subsequent recalculations. FIDE recently applied recalculation to all ratings up to 2000. On chess.com severe pool localisation is ignored, recalculations never happen and increments are the only tool to adjust ratings. This makes possible for really strong players to climb steadily, but unfairly puts the rest in a random chaotic wandering in low-Elo zone.

- Rating of engines is precise, measured against GMs and corresponds to FIDE ratings at GM level. Can be scaled down (also precisely), because it's all just math. It doesn't lie. And engines don't have bad days. So we can use engines as reference. And the thing is, most novice players here (100-400 chess.com-rated) beat 1000 or even 1300 bots at least 50% of the time while beating 250-rated bots 90-99% of the time. That means that their actual Elo level is 1000+. Because Elo scales up and down. And because just by taking an established rating of someone and your winrate against him you can estimate your rating. That's the idea behind Elo. Only few people understand this, sadly. Here we don't have a proper chain from GM level down to various rating levels. They are all distorted. We don't know how actually strong 1000-chess.com-rated player is. But obviously much more stronger than 1000-FIDE-rated. So this issue touches not only very-low-Elo players.

basketstorm

And the most obvious proofs are here in these videos, just watch every vid till the end to learn the truth